Earlier quoted context omitted.
In Europe the WhatsApp alternatives are generally framed as tools for pedophiles and organized crime. Even installing them on your phone may alert LEO that you're suspect. This move by Facebook is highly troubling. edit: mass downvote! here are the links. this link talks specifically about signal protocol being used by organized crime https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/waarom-criminel... https://www.securit…
Do you have an source for that claim. I am in Europe and have never heard that. The closest I know of is right wing groups using Telegramm for their Anti-Covid agitation.
WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app
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Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app
#542I'd love to give up WhatsApp, but network effects are key here. I tried moving my extended family off WhatsApp onto Signal a couple of years ago and it failed miserably because the app wasn't nearly as easy to use, and they had all their friends on Whatsapp. Has anyone here had any success moving a large group of people onto something like Signal or Telegram? If so, do you have any tips?
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app
#543Earlier quoted context omitted.
This has been a very long time due. An ability to give untrustworthy software an access to a sandboxed blank copy of Contacts would've been very useful. As a side note, Telegram is the same as WhatsApp. You can't start a chat on a fresh install unless you give it an access to the contacts. There's no way to manually add in-app contacts. Given how "pro-privacy" they are supposed to be, this was rather disconcerting to…
But you can start at new chat in WhatsApp via https://api.whatsapp.com/send?phone=XXXXXXX Does not work for me in Firefox, but in Chrome on Android, I can start a new chat without access to the contacts. I agree that it is weird though!
Where `` contains the international prefix without the `+` sign. Has worked for me in Firefox and everywhere else I've tried. This is a fb-owned domain btw.
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app
#544Earlier quoted context omitted.
So what should self sentient person do, just lie down and accept the erosions of our blood won freedoms? No thanks. I have right now all my company talking to thousands of customers explaining this mess to them and helping those who need to switch to Signal. So yeah, fuck you FB!
Signal is no better. You fell into one marketing trap with WhatsApp and have now fallen for another. Signal is another private entity with complete control of the servers and end client binaries. The fact they happen to open source the code is kind of moot since no services are allowed to write alternative implementations, no one can run their own servers or prove what code is running on Signals servers, nor can anyo…
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app
#545Earlier quoted context omitted.
Signal is no better. You fell into one marketing trap with WhatsApp and have now fallen for another. Signal is another private entity with complete control of the servers and end client binaries. The fact they happen to open source the code is kind of moot since no services are allowed to write alternative implementations, no one can run their own servers or prove what code is running on Signals servers, nor can anyo…
Thank you for the constructive answer. I thought Signal was open source, and the distributed binaries matched the source, and that is was allowed to run your own servers. Are the servers even open source? Are there lirerature regarding the technical/conceptional bits Element/Matrix? What is the tradeoff there?
This is sort of true. The source is published and you can build your own binary. But given that you can't distribute Signal outside of official stores and can't pin the version in those official stores (unless you turn off updates on your phone entirely), it's not actually practical to run an audited version, yet alone to make your own changes to the code.
> and that is was allowed to run your own servers. Are the servers even open source?
EDIT: apparently there is now (purported) server source available, not that that means much when there's no way to even know which code a given server is running, yet alone run a server with different code. They claim that their E2E encryption means control of their servers doesn't matter, but their protocol analyses doesn't actually think about what an attacker might be able to do at the server level, IME.
> Are there lirerature regarding the technical/conceptional bits Element/Matrix? What is the tradeoff there?
It uses either the same ratchet protocol as Signal or a very similar one. E2E for group chats is more complicated but I don't think you're giving up anything.
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app
#546I am in the EU, and this is what I have been presented with: „ By tapping Agree, you accept the new terms, which take effect on February 8, 2021. After this date, you’ll need to accept the new terms to continue using WhatsApp. You can also visit the Help Center if you would prefer to delete your account and would like more information. To learn more about how WhatsApp processes your data, read our updated privacy pol…
So you are going to move from one centralized, walled garden, privacy hostile platform that hard requires Google/Apple ecosystems to get signed updates... to another with identical drawbacks. I suggest something that lets you use any client/platform you want, uses the same crypto primitives, and lets you choose what server/country your data is hosted in and change your mind any time, e.g Matrix. How many times do cen…
The most mature app is Signal. It has the best usability to privacy trade-off.
Threema is the better choice if you don't mind not having a usable desktop client. For me that's a total deal breaker. It costs a one-time 5 bucks and it's totally worth that, if only it had so much as a usable web client (you need to open your phone and navigate two menus to enable the web client every time your phone changes WiFi or anything).
Wire is the better choice if you can sacrifice a tiny bit of usability for better privacy. It's sluggish is all, and (like Signal and most other services) uses AWS. Full disclosure: I was involved in a paid audit of Wire so I know more about the encryption protocol than I do about the other clients'.
Element/Matrix is the better choice if you'd rather make a trade-off towards privacy. Presumably the clients will mature, and between two years ago and one year ago they've made good progress. It's going less fast today but I still see things getting slowly better, and the decentralization works very well and fairly easy to setup.
If all you really want is a better privacy policy and want to ensure people stick around and don't uninstall it, Telegram is by far the usability winner and has a large network effect already. But it's a trade-off with the devil because there is zero encryption. They could ransom or sell our chat logs any time.
Briar and Jami have limitations that make it unusable for general purposes use with your mom. Facebook and Google's messengers I didn't look at for obvious reasons. Keybase was never end to end encrypted to begin with and now Zoom bought them so they'll probably shut down soon (also, bugs).
Rocket.chat seems only aimed at business users.
You can also do OTR over any platform you like, and I still have to try this overlay encryption system on Android (I forgot its name).
Pick your poison...
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app
#547"As part of the Facebook family of companies, WhatsApp receives information from, and shares information with, this family of companies. We may use the information we receive from them, and they may use the information we share with them, to help operate, provide, improve, understand, customize, support, and market our Services and their offerings. This includes helping improve infrastructure and delivery systems, un…
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app
#548Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you are going to move from one centralized, walled garden, privacy hostile platform that hard requires Google/Apple ecosystems to get signed updates... to another with identical drawbacks. I suggest something that lets you use any client/platform you want, uses the same crypto primitives, and lets you choose what server/country your data is hosted in and change your mind any time, e.g Matrix. How many times do cen…
I don't like Signal's stance on forks (which is that they are allowed but may not use the official Signal network) but it hardly has identical drawbacks. Signal is open source, can be downloaded as an official APK and can be run on LineageOS without Google Play (notifications do require some emulation of Play Services calls, but that can be provided using MicroG).
Is it technically prevented or just frowned upon? The former would be strange, because fixing a bug in your own private fork would also exclude you from the network.
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app
#549Can someone help and dumb this down a little bit for me so that I can then explain to some of my friends who couldn't care too much about this change in policy? For example: What should be my response to questions like: . "What kind of data can now be shared with FB versus what was shared earlier (if any)?" . "Whatsapp chats are end to end encrypted so how can my data be shared with FB?" . "As an individual, how diff…
Their infra is generating those encryption certificates, so WhatsApp can very well decode the message and store it for further processing. They will most likely share metadata about you with facebook to sell that data to push more ads into your face. They may very well sell also data to insurance companies making it harder for you to get insurance. Options are limited only by who would like to pay for info about you.…
Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app
#550I mean, we should help our friends to migrate to new solutions. If we don't we lose.