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Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

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Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#541

Post by kazagistar »

chunky1994 wrote: post #517
davrosthedalek wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very simple. If it's harder for foreign people to become postdocs/profs in the US, the quality of US research will fall. Quickly.

Citation heavily needed here. I find it hard to believe on face value that foreign researchers are necessarily better than US researchers; especially given the number of both foreign and domestic university graduates from U.S universities is much less than the available postdoc and professorship appointments in STEM.

Quality is distributed somewhat evenly. The best and the brightest are all over the world. Not every foreigner is better then every local, but for any given quality cutoff, a majority of talent will come from outside the nation.

If your goal is sufficiency, then the local population will suffice. If your goal is to capture as much of the truly top talent, you have to cast the net wider.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#542

Post by ravila4 »

chunky1994 wrote: post #517
davrosthedalek wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very simple. If it's harder for foreign people to become postdocs/profs in the US, the quality of US research will fall. Quickly.

Citation heavily needed here. I find it hard to believe on face value that foreign researchers are necessarily better than US researchers; especially given the number of both foreign and domestic university graduates from U.S universities is much less than the available postdoc and professorship appointments in STEM.

Science is by far one of the most globalized fields. The international collaborations that it thrives on are largely formed via exchange of students. We cannot afford to be ethnocentric in this day and age.

As an example, America would never have been first on the moon if it were not for a certain German engineer Wernher von Braun.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#543

Post by sk2020 »

la6471 wrote: post #457
ummonk wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If their projects are that important we should be spending more on them so they meet the minimum pay requirements.

Did Covid not teach us anything? How long do you think it will take for your job to be offshored? Maybe few years? This will give incentive to increase offshoring to the companies. Mind you - offshoring is not equal to outsourcing. If you work for a Global company like Google or GE - good luck. Stopping immigration is like stopping oxygen ... this economy will slowly stagnate and be overtaken by other more efficient…

Go to upwork, pick a skilled job, like Java development or mechanical engineering, and then browse labor rates for people outside of the US. You have CAD drafters in Pakistan billing at $5/hr. Easily a 75% discount on a skilled American. Pop-wisdom is that These economies are efficient in the sense that much of their population lives in poverty, the likes of which is almost entirely absent from the US. We basically won’t let anyone starve if they don’t refuse help, and we subsidize even the most stupid and violent members of our population out of compassion (and sometimes for votes). Personally, I would not welcome depressing US wages to a global mean while political apparatchiks and the idle class pocket the difference. I don’t think you really want that either.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#544

Post by spicyramen »

victor106 wrote: post #46

I finally agree with something this administration is doing. This is a solid move. H1B has been/is being abused by all companies (big and small) for a number of years at the cost of not only American workers but also the visa holders. The only ones benefiting are the companies that sponsor H1B visas by suppressing wages for everyone. I just hope the new administration don't role back these changes. Typically when a n…

+1 on this. I have a CS masters degree from top UK university and was hired as Software Engineer, but company registered me as a Computer technician. When my H1b required renewal, DoL found out that I was a Software Engineer and company was forced to give a 20k yearly increase, not retroactive. This was Cisco. This is a.great move for people like me that I had no idea about salary ranges and US laws

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#545

Post by hansvm »

andrewmutz wrote: post #530
WillPostForFood wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

bias coming from bad experiences in the computer science field https://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2020-H1B-Visa-Category.as... It isn't bias, just look at the H1B distribution, it heavily biased to the CS/IT space. Like for every possible biologist you are imagining, there probably 100 IT/CS guys coming in. I'd love to have the biologists and chemists come in, but the big IT consultancies are massively abusing the sy…

The US needs way more software engineers than is has, and sky-high salaries are the evidence of this. I think we should make it easier for people to come and work in the US. The existing H1B system works pretty well for employers and employees. When I hear people describe H1B immigrants as somehow taken advantage of, their experience seems far different than mine (I have never seen people mistreated by the system). T…

The window to get kicked out of the country when layoffs happen is pretty narrow, even for people who have lived here for years. It presents a pretty heavy threat if abused because it might be hard to seal the deal on a new job (especially if you're even a little bit selective) before you suddenly become illegal.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#546

Post by hnaccy »

jedberg wrote: post #515
Spinnaker_ wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asymmetric access to the work force is probably the most valuable right that most HN readers have. Why should we want to give that up? I struggle to see how your idea would be better for any Americans, except the owner-class.

> I struggle to see how your idea would be better for any Americans A rising tide (growing economy) lifts all boats. Think of all the services that would need to expand -- markets, restaurants, hair salons, etc. Furthermore, immigrants contribute more to the tax base than citizens because they pay the same income taxes without getting all the deductions, they pay sales taxes and other taxes, and do not get the same b…

Inequality continues to increase and wages for most Americans have been stagnant for decades.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#547

Post by mikewarot »

andrewmutz wrote: post #530
WillPostForFood wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

bias coming from bad experiences in the computer science field https://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2020-H1B-Visa-Category.as... It isn't bias, just look at the H1B distribution, it heavily biased to the CS/IT space. Like for every possible biologist you are imagining, there probably 100 IT/CS guys coming in. I'd love to have the biologists and chemists come in, but the big IT consultancies are massively abusing the sy…

The US needs way more software engineers than is has, and sky-high salaries are the evidence of this. I think we should make it easier for people to come and work in the US. The existing H1B system works pretty well for employers and employees. When I hear people describe H1B immigrants as somehow taken advantage of, their experience seems far different than mine (I have never seen people mistreated by the system). T…

Does this mean the US needs way more CEOs and Board Members than it has, and the sky-high compensation packages are evidence of this as well?

No, programmers are underpaid, deliberately. We just had a story all about it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24689582

It has been suggested by Eric Weinstein that the H1B visa was deliberately designed to cap wages of PhDs... this is a side-effect.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#548

Post by thowaway23413 »

Dork1234 wrote: post #531
mavelikara wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama administration allowed Employment Authorization for dependents of H-1B visa holders who applied and were chosen for permanent residency and were stuck in the backlogs. Many of these people - women, mostly - have been unable to participate meaningfully in the economy of many years. What is the problem with allowing them to work while they wait for their turn to be permanent residents?

The original idea of the H1-B Visa was these were high paying jobs where the spouse wouldn't need to work. It appears the pay rate has not kept with with inflation and/or cost of living.

Apologies for bringing up the obvious.

But just because "the spouse" doesn't need to work, doesn't mean they don't want to work.

"The spouse" shouldn't be denied the right to work just because their partner has an H1-B.

For shame.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#549

Post by sjg007 »

asabjorn wrote: post #448
ravila4 wrote: post #434

I feel like this thread has a lot of bias coming from bad experiences in the computer science field. While I do understand the bad practices of many tech companies, I think the picture is very different when you look at careers in other STEM fields, such as biology, chemistry, and physics. H1B visas are very important for foreign students in these fields particularly those hoping to pursue careers in academia. H1B vi…

The problem with how academic and science work is currently structured is that there is an oversupply of labor at basement-dwelling compensation. Post-docs work for decades before getting better opportunities, and people are cheap labor in industry labs for long periods of time. Foreign workers are partially compensated for low pay with a potential visa to stay, while this extra motivation is not there for Americans.…

This pipeline is already drying up due to covid.

Re: Trump administration announces overhaul of H1B visa program requiring higher pay

#550

Post by jmpman »

TuringNYC wrote: post #82
nrmitchi wrote: post #33

I'll give you that, but it seems like a much simpler solution would have just been improving the flexibility for an H1B worker to be allowed to work at any employer for the term of their status. If an employer used an H1B in order to hire a foreign worker and then under pay them, the worker would just get another job that pays market rate, without the work status concern. Without the artificial control over the emplo…

The best thing to do would be to treat them like local workers -- increased pay AND increased flexibility. This will help retain the best overseas workers in the US. Even better would be a salary auction where US companies get to auction (higher and higher salaries for the best overseas workers.) The highest auction rates would fill the quota first. Overseas workers win bigtime. Companies seeking talent also win. Loc…

Why should the overseas workers capture that gain? Seems like a tax which can be used to train US citizens for these extremely in demand jobs would be a better use of that money than sending it overseas.
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