Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk • Hacker News Board

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#541

Post by isthispermanent » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 9:24 PM UTC

oramit wrote: post #358

What we currently have going on right now is a complete collapse in confidence. So many commenters are debating the death rate, case counts, hospitalizations, etc, which is all besides the point. Heres the thing: even if you believe people are being irrationally afraid, telling people they are stupid and should just suck it up isn't going to get people to cooperate. Do you want to be smugly right, or do you want thin…

Yes. This is largely the problem. Unfortunately, I don't think it would have mattered whether it was a left or right president. The side not in office would have done the opposite. Everything is a political proxy war right now.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#542

Post by justwalt » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 9:25 PM UTC

DenisM wrote: post #219

The Los Angelos teachers added a few other requests [1]. The introduction starts with: [...] LAUSD educators clearly want to get back into schools with their students, but the underlying question at every step must be: Given broader societal conditions, how do we open physical schools in a way that ensures that the benefit outweigh the risks [...] And then proceeds to the following recommendations, among many others:…

Is “undocumented students and families” a euphemism for people aren’t in the US legally?

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#543

Post by int_19h » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 9:25 PM UTC

eaandkw wrote: post #450

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one of the things that has been so disheartening to me about the pandemic is that it has shown how we just can't really do anything anymore in the US. I mean, just look at PPE. I understand being a little flat footed when the pandemic first started, but it's been nearly 6 months now. I would have expected mass mobilization to pump out N95 masks, gloves, gowns, face shields, etc. by the millions. I mean, look…

Honestly I think the government is too big and centralized. At this point is isn't much different that Soviet Russia back in the 80s and 90s. I think the reason the government can't do a good job is because it wasn't designed to operate the way it is now. We were supposed to be 50 states all doing what is best for them and not dictated by the federal government. The right decision for New York will probably not be th…

As somebody who actually lived in the USSR in 1980s (a reminder that it ceased to exist in 1991), that's not even wrong.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#544

Post by analbumcover » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 9:25 PM UTC

RestlessMind wrote: post #423

cool_dude85 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure where you're from, but in many places, "society and government" has not failed people the same way it has in the US. Even within the US there are some places where local and state government have performed much better than places like Florida or NYC. That is to say, the problem is not, conceptually, "society and government", but instead, the American society and American government we have today. Don't give…

Let's see - US government instituted reasonably prompt lockdowns. They mailed one-time stimulus checks to everyone, gave 600$ unemployment insurance boosts, ramped up hospital capacities, opened up other support measures for businesses and allowed 50 parallel experiments (at state level) to see what works and what doesn't. Was the response perfect? Certainly not. Did some other countries do better? I'm sure we could…

The US had, by far, the poorest response to covid of any developed nation. Which is to be expected when the US is only a borderline developed nation.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#545

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 9:25 PM UTC

neverartful wrote: post #264

tgv wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iceland, of course, has only 360.000 inhabitants.

How big of a sample size do you need to be convinced?

[deleted]

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#546

Post by cortesoft » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 9:25 PM UTC

eaandkw wrote: post #487

Oxx wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good. The current state of the world is incredibly unnatural when you compare it to even 50 years ago. Everything is too connected. We are so much more efficient, but so much more fragile. The best thing you can do to save the world is save yourself and your family. Less fragility, more robustness at the personal / local level. I am mid twenties, and was homeschooled my entire childhood. My father owned a technology…

At this point I am even sure that being more efficient is better. From the context of economic opportunity the only ones that benefit are the rich and well connected. Now, I'm not one to bash "rich people" but think about it. If I was looking for a good deal for some land I could probably find one if I looked hard enough. Today it is pretty difficult to find land that isn't insanly expensive or too far away. Everythi…

> At this point I am even sure that being more efficient is better. From the context of economic opportunity the only ones that benefit are the rich and well connected.

I think you are really underselling how awful life has been in the past.

Just look at things like child mortality rates.... historically, nearly HALF of all people died during childhood. That is insane. The global rate is now about 1/10 of that.

Similar changes have been made to starvation and malnourishment, with today's rates so much lower than historically.

This would not be possible without the improvements in efficiency over the years. Because we need so few people to grow enough food to feed everyone, we can spend the resources on medical research and advancements that have allowed our health outcomes to improve so much.

Are the gains of an efficient society unequally distributed? Of course. But let's solve the inequality problem by sharing the gains, not destroying the gains.

Yes, if we got rid of our efficiency gains, we would be more equal... because everyone would be much poorer.

We would still have people exploiting others, though. That happened way before we were efficient.

https://ourworldindata.org/child-mortality-in-the-past

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#547

Post by electriclove » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 9:25 PM UTC

mistermann wrote: post #304

not2b wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this is a consequence of ideologies that have become popular in the US both in politics and in business. Having government direct a mobilization is not acceptable. A mandate that people wear masks is not acceptable. Having manufacturing capacity to make low-value products in large numbers in the US is bad business when poorer countries can do it for less. Having spare inventory is bad, because just-in-time man…

> Now, all of this could be turned around quickly with good leadership that could rally the country behind a cause, but we chose someone who... Were all of these issues nonexistent under prior administrations? Or, as for turning it around, are you asserting that Clinton both could have and would have done so? If so, how do you know this?

You are getting downvoted for your political statement. I really wish the parent comment kept out the last bit because the conversation then devolves to red/blue, left/right, white/black.

We, as a country, screwed the handling of this. It isn't just one person. It is the way our entire system works. How do we fix it?

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#548

Post by hosh » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 9:25 PM UTC

vlunkr wrote: post #292

hosh wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's my conclusion that the system has failed as well, and it comes from things that are intrinsic to the system itself. Our civilization and systems are set up for failure. When "success" and "wealth" is determined by how much resources you can extract from the land and people, and how much control over access to those resources, it incentivized centralization and control over basic necessities. This would be food,…

This argument really doesn't work for me because you have nothing to compare the system to. > Our civilization and systems are set up for failure. I mean, it's succeeded so far. There have been and will be growing pains, but so far the standard of living has increased over time. To declare failure is just speculation. > fragile global supply chain Fragile compared to what? > Every one of those require money and parti…

I have describe systems. There are demonstrator sites all around the world with people living with less dependency upon the system. It does not require 100% self-sufficiency to make a difference, and even 50% self-sufficiency with reslient and regenerative processes makes that family much more survivable.

But if you really want some case studies, the best one I have come across is this: https://www.architectural-review.com/essays/cubas-urban-farm...

After the fall of the USSR, Cuba had trade sanctions, cutting them off from the global supply chain. Locals had to come up with something to survive, and they started building a number of local, decentralized food systems. This was all grassroots, though they were eventually supported at the policy level. These were the same people who developed a sneakernet, passing contraband information from the Internet via disks and thumbdrives along the gossip channels.

So no, this system is not pure fiction. There are working examples. There are practices in place that people have been developing for 50 years now. There are people who are living that way.

More to the point, I am already implementing these things at my house and working my way towards that. I don't need to convince you. I'm not here pointing out problems with economies and governments. I have come across solutions, and they don't require large scale changes in policy for me to start taking action.

> Sorry, but this is just the reality of being a living creature. You can go fully off the grid if you want and make all those things for yourself, but most people don't do that, because, spoiler alert, it sucks. It's more work than participating in an economy.

No, it is not the reality of being a living creature. We can do better than that and we have the technologies and practices developed. There are some conveniences we have to let go, but there are a lot of the "work" is not as hard of a work as you think. It does not require a sudden change in going completely off the grid either. Small changes, over time is the way to go, one that works with the social customs and culture of the people involved.

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#549

Post by shreyansj » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 9:25 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #419

not2b wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this is a consequence of ideologies that have become popular in the US both in politics and in business. Having government direct a mobilization is not acceptable. A mandate that people wear masks is not acceptable. Having manufacturing capacity to make low-value products in large numbers in the US is bad business when poorer countries can do it for less. Having spare inventory is bad, because just-in-time man…

> A mandate that people wear masks is not acceptable. Personally speaking I'm all good with wearing a mask if they let me out of my house. The Shelter in place thing has been such an overreaction that I'm kind of primed to rebel just because I'm so incensed by the violation of rights... Wearing a mask is like requiring wearing a seatbelt. Shelter in place is like saying no one can drive except a few exceptionals.

Which right is being violated in your opinion? And why is that more important than others' right to stay alive?

Re: Teachers are ready to quit rather than put their lives at risk

#550

Post by Avicebron » Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 9:26 PM UTC

rmrfrmrf wrote: post #512

charwalker wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So 2 directions? The cheaper, easier, and far more deadly in person option or invest $$$ with a need for short term results. It's never that simple, but if the issue is spending the money then I don't see why it isn't a straight forward option given how much we've spent to buy bad debt and bail out administration cronies.

The consensus on both ends of the political spectrum over the past 30 years is that public education is a failure and must be abolished through either defunding or diverting funding to charter schools. Providing more funding to public schools would undermine that goal.

I don't see it as a consensus when there has been a systematic defunding and destruction of many many education systems, especially in rural america and the inner cities. It's like saying, why did you fall in the hole I dug in front of you?