Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued • Hacker News Board

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#541

Post by Jwarder » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 1:47 PM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #309

Jwarder wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they are literal concentration camps. Concentration camps have existed before and after the Nazis; that's not some idea they invented. The horror of the Holocaust is focused around the death camps more than the concentration camps.

The phrase "concentration camp" in the English language no longer has any literal meaning that is simply composed of "concentration" and "camp". It refers strictly to the WWII Nazi concentration camps. Anyone using the phrase and then insisting that the literal meaning was intended is thoroughly disingenuous. That speaker or writer is deliberately using the loaded term in order to troll the intended audience with a c…

I'm totally confused by your argument here. The simple fact that myself and others posting here don't treat "concentration camps" totally equivalent to "Nazi extermination camps" seems like ipso facto proof that this is not a disingenuous distinction.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#542

Post by mercer » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 2:02 PM UTC

metiscus wrote: post #379

SideQuark wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider places that try industrialism without capitalism: do they perform worse than those with both? I think the answer is yes, by far. For example, there's plenty of communist countries that had industrialism but failed to grow economically as much as capitalist peers as examples. I'm unaware of many (any?) examples counter to this.

We are at max depth but to address the perceived lack of a shred of capitalism in the USSR, I can't help but point to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Economic_Policy which was espoused by Lenin himself and included a large component of free market capitalism. It was the efforts undertaken by Stalin in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectivization_in_the_Soviet... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization th…

Can you recommend any good books on the subject?

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#543

Post by kadenshep » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 2:03 PM UTC

astine wrote: post #540

kadenshep wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because your entire series of posts in this thread thus far have been nothing but questioning the motives of Elon Musk It's not a question. I quite literally detailed what factually has happened. It isn't up for debate. He again, quite literally, decided to discredit and defame the lead of the rescue efforts in attempt to white wash several people calling him out on a very, very obvious PR stunt. They were halfway t…

And now you're questioning my motives. Hypocrite

Not only does it not make me a hypocrite, being a hypocrite has no bearing on the substance of the argument. Questioning motives is perfectly valid, especially when there is a preponderance of evidence to substantiate that question. Appeal to motive is a fallacy because it has no effect on any statements made, so you're definitely confused on that front.

But when you present contrived scenarios to make a point (i.e., lying), your motive can and certainly should be questioned. Unless you're going to argue with most western court systems about the validity of doing that.

What were you honestly hoping to achieve with such a pathetic and ill-thought-out response?

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#544

Post by emodendroket » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 2:08 PM UTC

rusk wrote: post #532

jcranmer wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The expertise you'd want for drilling an emergency rescue tunnel would be a combination of skills related to drilling roughly pipe-sized vertical shafts [1] (mining/oil services, or maybe the companies themselves; I don't know what the exact breakdown of work packages end up being) and remote (specifically mountainous and jungle, in this case) infrastructure and logistics, which is military or again mining/oil servic…

I think you're winging it. > There is no evidence presented that Musk, nor any of his companies, has any of this kind of useful expertise https://www.boringcompany.com/faq/ > There is a world of difference between a tunnel-boring machine Yeah it wasn't the machine he was offering but the expertise. I get it, you've got it in for Musk. Fair enough, and I'm not out to hero worship him but lets be fair here - he did off…

Well, you repeatedly assert that he was acting in good faith, but on what grounds? I think the article Gizmodo put out on the subject is good. https://gizmodo.com/is-elon-musk-serious-1827456578

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#545

Post by coryfklein » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 3:34 PM UTC

_sbxe wrote: post #245

I feel like we all really needed this story. For once, there's nothing political or divisive. There's no one to be mad at. It's not "us or them". The world's top experts came together, volunteered for a dangerous mission, sacrificed, and pulled it off. Ra! Ra! Humanity! Feels like a brief moment of redemption.

Judging by sibling comments, Hacker News needed it too. Hey guys, it's totally OK to just be happy that 12 kids were saved.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#546

Post by hndamien » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 4:00 PM UTC

hndamien wrote: post #530

_sbxe wrote: post #245

I feel like we all really needed this story. For once, there's nothing political or divisive. There's no one to be mad at. It's not "us or them". The world's top experts came together, volunteered for a dangerous mission, sacrificed, and pulled it off. Ra! Ra! Humanity! Feels like a brief moment of redemption.

Some people still decided to get mad at Elon.

I don’t get the down votes here. My point is that it is sad they should be happy he tried or say nothing.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#547

Post by yani » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 4:22 PM UTC

los_angeles wrote: post #373

yani wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an interview in Thai with the guy who was sponsoring the water pumps.

So it was $3M paid for by a rich guy? Was he going to donate the money to charity if he didn't spend it on this?

I do not know the answer of this question.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#548

Post by yani » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 4:23 PM UTC

chrisan wrote: post #111

yani wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the money and equipment were donated.

While it may be true, not really the point GP was getting after. Cost or donation, can we expect the same for every child in need?

What do you mean? The OP question is straightforward. How can you twist the meaning that much is beyond me

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#549

Post by sangnoir » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 5:09 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #461

sangnoir wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically buying stuff made in poor countries. Capitalism is also farm subsidies, tax breaks and other corporate handouts given by rich nations that destroy the farming industries in poor countries. Capitalism (as currently practised, or in its purest, unregulated form) is not an untarnished 'good' by itself. This is without considering how capital is leveraged to the detriment of anything protecting poor people in…

Farm subsidies are the opposite of free-market capitalism.

Which is why I said capitalism, as currently practised

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#550

Post by dang » Wed, Jul 11, 2018, 5:23 PM UTC

kadenshep wrote: post #536

dang wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This flamewar was ridiculous all around, but your account stands out as among the worst that made it so bad. This is the kind of thing HN exists to avoid, not perpetuate, so would you please not use HN this way in the future? As I posted elsewhere, all this angry arguing about Musk, pro or con, is as meaningful as angry arguing about Spider-Man. Since you're on the con side, I'll add that all you're doing by venting…

Please elaborate? I presented an actual perspective. You have gone around these threads and insulted and demeaned people with a different opinion than the majority and then even equivocated these criticisms to a debate about a fictional character ("You guys might as well be bickering about Spider-Man."). That's not only incredibly dishonest, you really should be ashamed to stoop to such a level publicly. Intentionall…

It's simple: all this fever about GoodMusk vs. BadMusk has become bone-crushingly tedious. When that happens with anything, nothing can redeem it and it's off topic on Hacker News.

I definitely don't mean to pick on you personally. Dozens of HN users have been filling the threads with this lately and it needs to stop. We literally can't moderate it all, and the Elonian Provocation is large enough to be capable of swamping this site entirely.