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We're testing new ad formats in Search and expanding our Direct Offers pilot

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Re: We're testing new ad formats in Search and expanding our Direct Offers pilot

#531

The particularly worrying thing here is that they're now going to be gathering training data for a conversational model on _how to influence people effectively even when they already know they are being influenced_. Even more than RLFH already does. "We had to build the Torment Nexus so our children could eat" is not a good reason to build the Torment Nexus. The fact that they are not committing to not doing this tel…

While this is true, it is less effective than you might think in practice. Researchers studied something similar six months ago: https://arstechnica.com/science/2025/12/researchers-find-wha... Of course it is possible Google will create something orders of magnitude better but I doubt it. Amazon is already doing product recommendation on their front page and while it certainly drives sales it doesn’t turn people into…

My favorite example of why advertising/marketing is important but not overwhelming/unstoppable is in the hit-based industries: If the industry had a "make a superstar" button or a "make a blockbuster movie" button they could just keep mashing, they'd be mashing it constantly. You wouldn't see franchises go from top-of-the-world to decline like Marvel or Fast and Furious. You wouldn't see expensive new bombs or failure-to-launch reboots. There is countless chatter out there about industry plants, organic vs PR-shilling word of mount campaigns, etc. But... if that's all it took, it would be wayyyyy more constant. A lot of words spilled recently about a band, Geese, and how their buzz wasn't as organic as it seemed... for a band that's still, at the end of the day, quite niche and small-in-audience...

It's very hard to get a huge hit without marketing - even great word of mouth benefits from amplification - but it's also near-impossible to force a hit into an audience that isn't vibing with it. The highest-grossing movies, or highest-listened pop music, is a combo of marketing + accurately hitting extremely-common/trendy tastes. See also iPhone marketing vs Windows Phone marketing. I thought Windows Phone was better; none of my friends or coworkers was convinced even after I showed them my phones. The mass media consumer may not have thought much about their tastes or tried very hard to be more adventurous, but that doesn't mean they don't like the stuff they're eating.

I think this is still in many ways bad - at the very least, it's incredibly inefficient to have a billion-dollar zero-sum "pick this one over that one" industry. But I don't think it's a deadly threat. (See also any number of "tons of money and star-power behind them" failed political candidates too...)

Re: We're testing new ad formats in Search and expanding our Direct Offers pilot

#534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The YouTube algorithm seems to be this bad. I listened to a song a few weeks ago... now that song is in almost every page on YouTube for me. Homepage, sidebar, search results. It's just everywhere. I've already listened to it. I don't want to listen to it again every single day for the rest of time.

Even worse, listening in YouTube Music pollutes my regular YouTube feed. Why have two apps when they're the same thing?

This is why I unsubscribed from YouTube Music after having been a Google Play Music user for years. YTM polluting YT just ruined both for me.

Now I use a different music streaming platform and have history turned off on YouTube.

Re: We're testing new ad formats in Search and expanding our Direct Offers pilot

#535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“For a user this reads like getting bombarded with ads tailor made just for you based on the context of what would be most effective.” Isn’t this what the current search experience already is?

Before it was: "Shop for balding pills", Now it's going to be: "Your calendar indicates your mother's birthday is tomorrow, your album photos of her living room seem to indicate she likes elephants. In a past LLM conversation you mentioned she has trouble with technology. A good gift idea is the new Google Geminibook with this animal laptop skin. Add to cart?"

More like, "Your mom's birthday is tomorrow and you forgot again, didn't you? I've gone ahead and added this perfect gift to your cart that will be delivered in time. I'll purchase and ship it now if you'd like?"

Re: We're testing new ad formats in Search and expanding our Direct Offers pilot

#536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's basically standard SEO but it also manipulates AI like ChatGPT very very easily There are key differences. 1) Google doesn't get paid for the SEO, so even is crime is involved, Google isn't directly responsible. 2) AI ads are unmarked, which is illegal pretty much everywhere. And because of the way LLMs work, it is impossible to tell where a given output came from, neither which part of the prompt/context nor…

Why would AI ads be unmarked? Most of the Google AI search results I get show sources. They're just summarizing top results for you, injecting a ad shown as an ad into that isn't tremendously different than how Google worked before.

For the same reason that ads in reddit comments are unmarked. The law hasn't caught up yet. There are countless "guerilla marketing" campaigns across reddit that are not identified as ads. I expect AI will be no different and it'll take the law a decade+ to catch up.

Re: We're testing new ad formats in Search and expanding our Direct Offers pilot

#537

The particularly worrying thing here is that they're now going to be gathering training data for a conversational model on _how to influence people effectively even when they already know they are being influenced_. Even more than RLFH already does. "We had to build the Torment Nexus so our children could eat" is not a good reason to build the Torment Nexus. The fact that they are not committing to not doing this tel…

While this is true, it is less effective than you might think in practice. Researchers studied something similar six months ago: https://arstechnica.com/science/2025/12/researchers-find-wha... Of course it is possible Google will create something orders of magnitude better but I doubt it. Amazon is already doing product recommendation on their front page and while it certainly drives sales it doesn’t turn people into…

I really don't get why 1CB isn't more common than it is.

The obvious answer is "patents", but software patents aren't valid in Europe; and besides, the Amazon patent has expired; and European stores are, if anything, far, far more horrendous than American ones.

I guess upsells are more profitable than one-click these days?

Re: We're testing new ad formats in Search and expanding our Direct Offers pilot

#538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually Reddit is receiving more organic traffic than ever before and is more valuable to game than ever But yes actually I was doing this about 15 years ago in the men's fashion subreddit for one of my companies lol

Can you elaborate a bit on how that looks like in practice?

You just use aged accounts to engage and make it look like they're promoting a certain business through either new posts or comments or combination. And you can use tools or just Google to see which Reddit threads are already ranking for a certain keywords and then you would go to those pages and leave comments recommending your business etc

Re: We're testing new ad formats in Search and expanding our Direct Offers pilot

#539
post #29

I wonder whose bright idea it was to label ads as 'helpful'. Do Google execs actually look for ads first when they google a question?

You'd be shocked at how many people who work on ads really do delude themselves into thinking people find ads "useful". Their usual justification is in the end somewhere tied to "people click on ads so they must find them useful". And yet somehow always ignores the fact that their platform often does all it can to hide that ads are ads and makes them look as much like content as possible.

If lots of people work for the company, they’re making a lot, and paying a lot, in the world we live in professional ethics in tech are considered quaint and naive, if they’re even on the radar.

Re: We're testing new ad formats in Search and expanding our Direct Offers pilot

#540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is true, it is less effective than you might think in practice. Researchers studied something similar six months ago: https://arstechnica.com/science/2025/12/researchers-find-wha... Of course it is possible Google will create something orders of magnitude better but I doubt it. Amazon is already doing product recommendation on their front page and while it certainly drives sales it doesn’t turn people into…

My favorite example of why advertising/marketing is important but not overwhelming/unstoppable is in the hit-based industries: If the industry had a "make a superstar" button or a "make a blockbuster movie" button they could just keep mashing, they'd be mashing it constantly. You wouldn't see franchises go from top-of-the-world to decline like Marvel or Fast and Furious. You wouldn't see expensive new bombs or failur…

I think marketing is one factor for success, quality is another, but an under-appreciated third one is just getting more shots on goal until one finally succeeds.

I think this is one of the most under-appreciated explanations of why American-style capitalism succeeded where soviet-style communism failed. In theory, communism is more economically efficient, as you don't have multiple companies duplicating work and re-inventing variations on the same idea. In practice, it's much harder to judge an idea than a finished product, so the best way to make a good product is to do it by evolution, not up-front design. If the whole country is oriented around making X happen, X must happen, whether it is a good idea or not.

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