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Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

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Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#531

Post by xnx »

epistasis wrote: post #411
georgeecollins wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the reason is that people know it is a problem but ideologically they really disagree about what to do about it. The impasse creates an opportunity for profit driven actors to fight reforms. Also, democracies do dumb things sometimes. See Brexit. But also, sometimes people from other countries-- I am thinking parts of Europe-- underestimate how well paid people in the US often are. They compare the averages,…

Oddly enough the big rhetorical push against a universal system from prior decades was about "death panels" deciding what care somebody would get. And guess what's happened with insurance? Death panels! The propaganda spin on the health care system in the US has been on overdrive ever since Hillary Clinton wanted to implement some reforms in the 1990s, leading to absolutely massive resistance to any change whatsoever…

Like Ticketmaster, health insurance companies get paid to be the "bad guys". This is a reasonable function since Americans can't seem to understand that someone must decide where limited resources go. However, there's no reason their cut should be so large.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#532

Post by pessimizer »

cm2012 wrote: post #109
pessimizer wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hot off the presses: Judge Scraps Rule Eliminating Medical Debt on Credit Reports https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/17/business/medical-debt-cre...

I have been doing this since before the initial law was passed as it happens

iirc before the law was passed, there were policies at the agencies themselves to wait at least 3 years before letting medical debt onto credit reports.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#534

Post by Uehreka »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #509
tptacek wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, a challenge for major structural alterations to the American system is that the median American family is probably better off under this system than they would be under any of the European-style systems: the wage premium enjoyed by many Americans and the lower tax level offsets the cost of insurance and copays. So when you're talking about how bad the American system is, you're really talking about a minority of…

>the median American family is probably better off under this system than they would be under any of the European-style systems: the wage premium enjoyed by many Americans and the lower tax level offsets the cost of insurance and copays. If you had said the median tech worker? I might have believed you, but the median family? No way.

Idk, speaking as a big Medicare-for-all supporter, this would definitely explain why MfA always polls well at first, until people start asking if they can keep their current plan. I know at this point in the debate we’re supposed to write those people off as either innumerate, a minority, or too risk-averse for their own good, but honestly if it turned out that that stat was true, that would explain a lot.

And it would be exactly the kind of political engineering minmax scheme large corps in the US are great at: petition legislators to cut regulations so you can cut costs and maximize profits, but keep juuuust enough of the right perks in the right places so that a slim majority of people in Wisconsin, Michigan and Georgia oppose shaking things up.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#535

Post by tptacek »

Uehreka wrote: post #534
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the median American family is probably better off under this system than they would be under any of the European-style systems: the wage premium enjoyed by many Americans and the lower tax level offsets the cost of insurance and copays. If you had said the median tech worker? I might have believed you, but the median family? No way.

Idk, speaking as a big Medicare-for-all supporter, this would definitely explain why MfA always polls well at first, until people start asking if they can keep their current plan. I know at this point in the debate we’re supposed to write those people off as either innumerate, a minority, or too risk-averse for their own good, but honestly if it turned out that that stat was true, that would explain a lot. And it wou…

The people who want to keep their own plan are almost definitionally not innumerate! They would be worse off financially under M4A.

That doesn't make M4A bad policy (I think it's bad policy for other reasons), but it does take "people are being irrational" off the table in a discussion like this.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#537

Post by nkmnz »

georgeecollins wrote: post #278
egorfine wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think the reason is that people know it is a problem but ideologically they really disagree about what to do about it. The impasse creates an opportunity for profit driven actors to fight reforms. Also, democracies do dumb things sometimes. See Brexit. But also, sometimes people from other countries-- I am thinking parts of Europe-- underestimate how well paid people in the US often are. They compare the averages,…

> ideologically they really disagree about what to do about it

I really don't understand this sentiment. It's not like the current state of the US insurance market were based on the principles of a free market. On the other hand, not coupling your health insurance to an employment contract that can be cancelled at will has nothing to do with socialism.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#538

Post by banku_brougham »

georgeecollins wrote: post #278
egorfine wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think the reason is that people know it is a problem but ideologically they really disagree about what to do about it. The impasse creates an opportunity for profit driven actors to fight reforms. Also, democracies do dumb things sometimes. See Brexit. But also, sometimes people from other countries-- I am thinking parts of Europe-- underestimate how well paid people in the US often are. They compare the averages,…

Wrong - sorry. The reason is that politically the US public is very skillfully managed from above via divide and conquer strategies and beaureaucratic techniques (i.e. identity politics, gerrymandering voting districts). The public polling is very clear about US citizen preferences, but US Govt policy is rarely aligned that way.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#539

Post by topaz0 »

ecosystem wrote: post #74

The American Medical Association owns copyright to all the codes and their descriptions. They have an extremely restrictive and expensive licensing options and they strictly forbid training models with the codes. This month, the practice was called out ( https://www.help.senate.gov/rep/newsroom/press/chair-cassidy... ) so the Overton window may be opening. The AMA (a nonprofit!) clears ~$300M/year revenue from the co…

$300M/year is less than $1 per person. This is not why healthcare is expensive.

Re: Using AI to negotiate a $195k hospital bill down to $33k

#540

Post by newZWhoDis »

ecosystem wrote: post #74

The American Medical Association owns copyright to all the codes and their descriptions. They have an extremely restrictive and expensive licensing options and they strictly forbid training models with the codes. This month, the practice was called out ( https://www.help.senate.gov/rep/newsroom/press/chair-cassidy... ) so the Overton window may be opening. The AMA (a nonprofit!) clears ~$300M/year revenue from the co…

Insurance companies get a lot of (deserved) hate, but the doctor cartel seems to skate on by in the eyes of the public.

The white coats are far from blameless here.

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