U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts • Hacker News Board

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#531

Post by reverendsteveii » Fri, Feb 07, 2025, 7:00 PM UTC

r3trohack3r wrote: post #510

ekianjo wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think 3 letters agencies care about the law? Ever heard of Snowden leaks?

Actually my takeaway from the Snowden leaks was that the government tried really hard to stay within the confines of the law, even if they wildly stretched the legal theory to get there. https://www.blankenship.io/essays/2020-07-13/ Doesn’t justify what they were doing, or make it legal, but it’s an important distinction when trying to reason about government surveillance programs.

You don't have to have a sound legal theory that will hold up in court. You just have to have a sound bite that you can vomit up when someone says "Wait a minute, isn't that blatantly illegal?"

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#532

Post by switch007 » Fri, Feb 07, 2025, 7:03 PM UTC

elevatedastalt wrote: post #512

I feel Apple is one of the few companies that has the market power to say, Fuck you, we will just not sell or offer any services in your market, and I suspect that would be enough for voters to knock some sense into their government.

What makes you think they'll do that? Any previous examples? China maybe?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#533

Post by localghost3000 » Fri, Feb 07, 2025, 7:04 PM UTC

This kind of thing makes me furious. I know there’s the EFF but what can someone concerned with privacy advocacy do in the face of these kinds of things? Are there orgs and political movements that are out there already? Privacy is a human right. IMO it’s one of the big issues of our time.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#534

Post by reverendsteveii » Fri, Feb 07, 2025, 7:05 PM UTC

aunty_helen wrote: post #357

TechnicalVault wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It creates a nasty precedent doesn't it? If Apple can provide the UK government with foreign data, what's to stop Russia or China making them provide data on UK minister's phones, or more likely dissidents in exile? I can't see on what basis the government thinks they're going to get to be exceptional here?

Why are you using Russia and China as examples of the bad guys here. They're not asking for global access to everyones data, the UK is. The UK are the bad guys.

I read it as using Russia and China as the other guys, rather than the bad guys. The idea is to eliminate any pre-existing feelings of trust and illustrate the fact that once your data is held by anyone in the global intelligence community you should think of it as being held by everyone in the global intelligence community.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#535

Post by blindriver » Fri, Feb 07, 2025, 7:08 PM UTC

The US is the only country with codified freedoms from the government. Every other country has rights given by the government to their citizens.

The US may suck every now and then, but the US constitution is one of the best things in human history. It protects us from governments like the UK that don't think they have any limits to control their citizens.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#536

Post by switch007 » Fri, Feb 07, 2025, 7:08 PM UTC

traceroute66 wrote: post #494

sneak wrote: post #364

There is already a global iCloud encryption backdoor. iCloud Backup is not end to end encrypted. iCloud Photos is not end to end encrypted. Apple can read all of your iMessages and see all of your photos. The governments where they operate can compel them to turn over this data. They can and do. Often. Operationally this doesn’t really change much.

> iCloud Backup is not end to end encrypted. iCloud Photos is not end to end encrypted. DO NOT SPREAD FUD. If you could be bothered to spend two microseconds on a search engine, you would find this[1] which states IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH : For users who turn on Advanced Data Protection, the total number of data categories protected using end-to-end encryption rises from 14 to 23 and includes iCloud Backup, Photos, Not…

Whatever the opposite of fud is, you're spreading it

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#537

Post by switch007 » Fri, Feb 07, 2025, 7:09 PM UTC

devwastaken wrote: post #315

time to pull business out of the U.K. then.

U.K. is as correct as U.S.A.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#538

Post by izacus » Fri, Feb 07, 2025, 7:10 PM UTC

throw0101c wrote: post #434

izacus wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple stockholders would never allow that.

> Apple stockholders would never allow that. Then they can vote in a board of directors that agrees with them, and have that board fire Tim Cook. I would hazard to guess that you'll see an exodus of a lot of folks leaving Apple either because (a) they won't follow that order, or (b) in solidarity with those that are fired. Reminder that privacy is feature that Apple touts (how much you believe them is up to you): > O…

I don't know where your ideas are coming from - Apple easily folded and gave all data to Chinese government when commanded to do so under leadership of Tim Cook.

Where does your thinking that they'll suddenly forget about revenue from UK over this come from?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#539

Post by SlavikCA » Fri, Feb 07, 2025, 7:11 PM UTC

koiueo wrote: post #526

koiueo wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because russia is a bag guy? (Idk about China, but considering they support russia...) Have you been living under a rock?

I'll be explicit: russia is a terrorist state. Majority of russian population supports the unprovoked genocidal war it currently wages on Ukraine.

Russia is no more terrorist state, than USA is.

That was USA scorched Vietnam. That was USA killing civilians in Iraq and Afganistan. That was USA overthrowing foreign goverments, including Ukrainian... And then it preached to Russia on what to do with neighboring states...

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#540

Post by autoexec » Fri, Feb 07, 2025, 7:13 PM UTC

Paradigma11 wrote: post #439

cbsks wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the UK is “on our side”. We’ve always been at war with Eastasia.

I dont think that is actually true in those cases. Relations with China were pretty cosy till they did a 180 around the second Bush administration and started all that Wolf Warrior diplomacy, 9 dotted line stuff, Hongkong crackdowns....... Regarding Russia, nobody really cared at all till it was absolutely impossible to ignore. Putin seems to think that he needs the west as an enemy to bolster his standing and power.…

> Regarding Russia, nobody really cared at all till it was absolutely impossible to ignore.

Regarding Russia, people have cared since the Bolshevik Revolution in 1917. The fear of communism and concerns about Russia grew until the red scare in the 1920s, through the cold war, and continues to do this day. There has never been a single point in your life when "nobody really cared at all" about Russia.

America's concerns over Russia died down a lot from what it was after the collapse of the USSR but never really went away. That said, if Putin hadn't been doing his best to fan the flames America would probably still be focused on the middle east as their new favorite boogeyman.