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America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

cnn.com

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Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#531

Post by echoangle »

isodev wrote: post #384
tw04 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you have listed above could be solved with money. Only 10% of applicants are physically and mentally qualified? Sounds like you need more applicants? Want to attract more applicants? Offer more compensation. The training and onboarding is incredibly long? Sounds like a doctor? Do you know why people go through the pain of becoming a doctor? Because they make a lot of money when they get through the other s…

> Only 10% of applicants are physically and mentally qualified? Another way would be investing in education (instead of dismantling it, or mixing it with religion and politics), making it more accessible so more people come out who are better equipped to take on "complex jobs"

I don’t think being a good applicant for air traffic control has a lot to do with classical education. It demands a lot of stuff you don’t really need for university, and a lot of experience and education in university won’t make you a better traffic controller.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#532

Post by mihaaly »

tw04 wrote: post #201
legitster wrote: post #77

Everyone is going to make this about money or unions or etc, but my employer briefly worked with some ATC employee groups and I can tell you exactly why they are short staffed: - The FAA has strict hiring requirements. You have to be mentally and physically capable, and by their own admission less than 10% of applicants are qualified for the job. https://www.faa.gov/air-traffic-controller-qualifications - The trainin…

Everything you have listed above could be solved with money. Only 10% of applicants are physically and mentally qualified? Sounds like you need more applicants? Want to attract more applicants? Offer more compensation. The training and onboarding is incredibly long? Sounds like a doctor? Do you know why people go through the pain of becoming a doctor? Because they make a lot of money when they get through the other s…

You must be an economist. :D

- Can you swim now?

- No.

- What if I give you money?

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#533

Post by silvestrov »

mrweasel wrote: post #493
Yeul wrote: post #308

The Netherlands has a shortage too. But they just cancel flights or even entire airports if they are understaffed. As an employee it is your duty to refuse orders that potentially risk lives.

That brings up an interesting solution: Figure out how many flights can be services with the current number of air traffic controllers, take away 5 - 10% to deal with illness and unforeseen issues, cap the number of flights to that number.

Then you have the problem that Congress overrules you.

> The number of flights at Reagan National is capped because of its congestion. But lawmakers have an interest in boosting direct flights to their states – for themselves and their constituents – because the airport is more convenient to downtown than Dulles International Airport

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2025/01/30/safety-...

So the knew the airport was already at max number of flights that it could handle safely and yet they still increased the number of flights in pure selfishness.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#534

Post by mihaaly »

isodev wrote: post #384
tw04 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you have listed above could be solved with money. Only 10% of applicants are physically and mentally qualified? Sounds like you need more applicants? Want to attract more applicants? Offer more compensation. The training and onboarding is incredibly long? Sounds like a doctor? Do you know why people go through the pain of becoming a doctor? Because they make a lot of money when they get through the other s…

> Only 10% of applicants are physically and mentally qualified? Another way would be investing in education (instead of dismantling it, or mixing it with religion and politics), making it more accessible so more people come out who are better equipped to take on "complex jobs"

Once upon a time in a country of the Universe some wise leader decided that there should be twice the number of graduates than before, so they made the education more accessible, accepting twice as many people than before. However, one - evil and ugly - department in the unversity was a barrier. They failed much more students than before with their old and ugly exams, so with some convincing they improved their exams reducing the level of expectations and voila, there were much more graduates designing buildings and other critical infrastructures than ever before, everyone lived happily ever after.... ?

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#535

Post by sureIy »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #492
kgilpin wrote: post #401

Today, hacker news solves air traffic control with either: a) More money b) Video game technology To truly get this problem, you really need to be in it. Either as a pilot or as a controller. Watching threads like this reminds me that I have expertise within a couple of specialized domains and that’s it. Beyond those, I’m a tourist.

If you were to design a modern way to solve this problem, you wouldn't end up with a pile of nineteen sixties era equipment and some very stressed ATC people and pilots trying to communicate over a noisy VHF radio channel. The challenge: - electrical planes are coming and are going to cause an influx of pilots who can now afford to own and fly their planes. Teslas with wings basically. Cheap to buy, cheap to fly, low…

US doesn't innovate anymore. Looking forward to seeing what Comac and China bring to the table before 2030.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#536

Post by egberts1 »

Too bad that we have some 2,000+ already-qualified FAA ATC of certain persuasion that are "just sitting" around waiting for their stress-free class-action money in the Brigida vs FAA 2015 reverse discrimination lawsuit.

Think they'll now work as ATC after they win?

Doesn't help to tie up 900+ more potential qualified ATC (again of certain persuadion) when FAA tried reverse discrimination AGAIN in 2021 in Brigida vs Buttigieg lawsuit.

Will they ever learn?

Source

https://www.tracingwoodgrains.com/p/the-full-story-of-the-fa...

https://casetext.com/case/brigida-v-buttigieg-1

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#537

Post by ForHackernews »

portaouflop wrote: post #327
nicoburns wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Earning highly does not universally command respect the way being a doctor does. Some would even see earning that much as being immoral (i.e. actually negative)

Which very highly paid job does not command respect in society? I can’t think of any (Outside of anti-capitalist circles ofc)

Lawyers, CEOs, hedge fund managers, investment bankers, congresspeople are all widely despised. To a lesser extent dentists, influencers and advertising executives are not well-loved.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#538

Post by metalman »

As part of my student pilot training, our class was taken to the air traffic tower, to meat and see the air traffic controllers at work and build some trust as in many emergency situations fir a pilot, its ATC who can save your sorry lost ass. There were a bunch of them working,handling local and international flights,multi screen work stations. One guy stood out, he was directing several flights during the landing phase, while talking to us, then it became clear that he was also directing planes on the ground, a collegue of his came up to confer, he started telling us a joke, but of couse had to pause here and there while he attended to these other trifles but his timing was so impecable, that the joke was still funny. So thats who you want, and you cant train THAT, whatever it is, but perhapps can identify and foster those that have...IT. The controll tower itself is strait out of a sci fi movie, with a glass walkway ,the only way in, to find a completely blank stainless wall, that then opens to reveal a completly blank elevator

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#539

Post by Shinolove »

watwut wrote: post #521
robertlagrant wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Want to attract more applicants? Offer more compensation. This was already addressed in the original post. Why write in this "spelling it out for you" style when they already addressed it? > Do you know why people go through the pain of becoming a doctor? Because they make a lot of money when they get through the other side. This is really reductive. There are multiple reasons: - very stable employment - very prest…

Doctors dont have interesting tales to tell, nor should have due to things being private by law. Stability of employment is something that traffic controllers could have, this is just a question of "working conditions" and solvable by money. I really do not see why traffic controller could not feel good about being traffic controller. They do more "life saving" jobs then any of us on hacker news.

Jokes on you I am working on ATC software solutions (safety modules exactly aiming to predict and warn about this kind of events)

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#540

Post by portaouflop »

hattmall wrote: post #430
portaouflop wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which very highly paid job does not command respect in society? I can’t think of any (Outside of anti-capitalist circles ofc)

Crane operators, any equipment operators really. Plumbers, HVAC tech, Boat Mechanics, the guy that climbed down in my septic tank to retrieve whatever he used to clear the line is making $300 an hour. And... uhm... software developers.

I respect the shit out of the first category tbh, those people keep society going
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