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I automated my job application process

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Re: I automated my job application process

#531

Post by mhb »

icedrift wrote: post #274
mhb wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charge $x for a candidate to apply for your job. Put the money in an escrow pool. Pay it to the person you hire for the job. Idea 2: Bid to have yourself reviewed for the job. Money goes in escrow pool.

Betting currency is a terrible solution, especially at the junior level when people are trying to start their careers. On the other hand, forcing candidates to invest time and in exchange guaranteeing their application will be reviewed could work well.

Huh? The problem is getting to the point where the company is able to have a candidate invest time and then review their work. If the candidate doesn't have the application fee, there could be a secondary market of people who would back the candidate if they were confident they could get the job and the escrowed application fees.

Re: I automated my job application process

#532

Post by mavelikara »

roenxi wrote: post #406
celdon25 wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone affected by this and in the US might consider calling or writing to their congressman. The time to do that is now when the demand is high to bolster jobs but low for excessive laws. Nobody innocent is going to be wronged if this is made into a crime or otherwise regulated to put a stop to. The fake job applicants are only siphoning resources from the economy at the high expense of all other parties involved. T…

If I didn't know better I'd think this was satire. As far as I can tell the advocacy is for either companies to be empowered to sue people who apply to work with them (seems like madness) or to set up a situation where the government enforcement arm pro-actively goes out and harasses unemployed job seekers. Either way that sounds like a recipe for disaster for unemployed persons.

I think the GP is suggesting that making, distributing, and profiting from such software should be made illegal. If an engineer can make this software, they are probably a good fit for many jobs in the market.

Re: I automated my job application process

#533

Post by charlie0 »

mattm wrote: post #509
charlie0 wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just hire them as contractors first. Give them a 2-3 month contract, if it doesn't work out, you just don't renew the contract.

That only works for desperate people. Sr people or people with other options would not take that risk.

But we've just established in this thread that even senior people are having difficulty findings jobs. This has nothing to do with desperation. Temp contract works both ways, if an employee doesn't like the company or finds another job within the 2-3 months, they are free to leave. This is more than fair.

Re: I automated my job application process

#534

Post by throwaway173738 »

yosito wrote: post #372
whiplash451 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you get (or asked for) feedback from the interviews you failed? Hiring managers / recruiters are sometimes quite transparent on this front. Ask them if it is possible to re-apply in a few months. Show your resume to friends and colleagues you trust and ask for honest feedback.

Personally, I've just been getting generic rejection responses from no-reply email addresses. There's no way to get feedback. My guess is that they're just sending out mass rejections for anyone except a few candidates they've selected to interview, and the other 1000 applications just get automatically tossed.

I was just hiring for an associate role recently and we got more than 800 applicants within a day, and our recruiter had a short list within a few days. If we gave everyone individualized feedback we wouldn’t do anything else for months. You might need to pay someone to look at the roles you’re applying for and the resumes you’re sending in for the kind of feedback you’re expecting.

Re: I automated my job application process

#535

Post by throwaway173738 »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #464
MrMember wrote: post #314

I'm seeing a lot of back in forth in the comments between hiring managers and employees discussing who is more responsible for the current situation, but from the perspective of someone looking for a job what should I be doing? I've been pretty aggressively looking for a job for the past six months or so. I have 10+ years of professional software dev experience so I've mostly been looking at senior dev positions. I h…

> I have 10+ years of professional software dev experience so I've mostly been looking at senior dev positions. Is the job market just as bad for juniors, people looking to enter the field right now?

Most likely. I was seeing people with a few years experience willing to accept a fairly junior role. As a result we passed on some people that I would’ve hired and trained in years past.

Re: I automated my job application process

#536

Post by chii »

mjevans wrote: post #510
aperrien wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then you run into problems on the corporate side: fake job listings to build up resume databases for comparison shopping of applicants. Regulations in this area should have to cut both ways.

I would REALLY love if job postings had to go through a government clearing house. Only real jobs get posted. Only real applicants can apply. Bonus: jobs would have to be classified according to a single government standard, so it should be possible to search for a good job match by at least limiting the field and (allowed) location(s).

making the jobs application (and hiring) market a single market will make it more efficient, and cut out a lot of middlemen inefficiencies. I like it.

You as a hiring company can pay to have a 2nd website, but posting it to the gov't portal is a requirement. The information, such as conditions, salary (range), experience, location etc, are all in standardized format. If you're found to be lying, it's a federal crime (because of fraud and interstate commerce for example).

Applicants also must have gov't issued ID (such as social security), so you cannot be fake.

Re: I automated my job application process

#537

Post by celdon25 »

mavelikara wrote: post #532
roenxi wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I didn't know better I'd think this was satire. As far as I can tell the advocacy is for either companies to be empowered to sue people who apply to work with them (seems like madness) or to set up a situation where the government enforcement arm pro-actively goes out and harasses unemployed job seekers. Either way that sounds like a recipe for disaster for unemployed persons.

I think the GP is suggesting that making, distributing, and profiting from such software should be made illegal. If an engineer can make this software, they are probably a good fit for many jobs in the market.

I'm suggesting that you should call your congressman and say that getting a job is a problem right now and automated applicants could be contributing to it (we don't know the full story, but making noise about it might at least inspire some investigation by those who have the ability to get the facts). I don't think it should be a crime to automate a job application, and I have no problem with it from an ethical point of view long as the application is made truthfully and in good faith by a reasonably qualified applicant and there is real intent to follow up on it.

But if that isn't the case, there's no reasonably good safety mechanism to mitigate the massive amount of harm that a determined bad faith actor could cause to the economy.

But making false claims about your work history (as could be the case with the one using ChatGPT to answer questions) is a problem, isn't it? And it's wonderful to see these rebuttals made against a hypothetical something that already happened. https://www.lawdepot.com/resources/business-articles/legal-c...

Re: I automated my job application process

#538

Post by sibeliuss »

margalabargala wrote: post #334
randomNumber7 wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't stand out from an LLM then why can't it do your job? Also, not using LLMs might be a red flag. I wouldn't want a dev that is not open to this technology...

> Also, not using LLMs might be a red flag. I wouldn't want a dev that is not open to this technology... The person you're replying to is a senior, not junior candidate. For junior devs who are still learning, LLMs are a great force multiplier that help them understand code faster and integrate new things. For senior devs, LLMs are a maybe-optional tool that might save a couple hours per week, on a good week. I would…

You've got this completely backwards. A Jr with an LLM is a recipe for disaster. They don't know the tech, and have no clue what the LLM is spitting back. They copy code into the abyss.

Meanwhile, a sr with an LLM is a straight up superpower!

Re: I automated my job application process

#539

Post by zahlman »

salomon812 wrote: post #160
xingped wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100%, this is a natural reaction to the situation companies have created. When you get a rejection response mere minutes after submission that claims "after careful consideration..." then of course I'm not going to spend any more time than that applying to any jobs anymore. Prove a human actually took the time to review my resume and I'll actually apply to your company like a human.

God, I wish I could respond to denied applicants like a human, but the threat of legal action prevents me from giving good feedback. I know it sucks, but I'm not sure what to do about this, and I'm already so burnt out from the hiring process as it is, it's hard to work up the strength to do this fight as well. Not to mentioned I spend forever doing it, there's so many and I wouldn't want to do it halfway...

>I wish I could respond to denied applicants like a human, but the threat of legal action

... Legal action on what basis, exactly?

Re: I automated my job application process

#540

Post by ilrwbwrkhv »

bane wrote: post #451
MrMember wrote: post #314

I'm seeing a lot of back in forth in the comments between hiring managers and employees discussing who is more responsible for the current situation, but from the perspective of someone looking for a job what should I be doing? I've been pretty aggressively looking for a job for the past six months or so. I have 10+ years of professional software dev experience so I've mostly been looking at senior dev positions. I h…

It's absolute insanity. Something has to give, or we're about to see some big changes in how hiring is done. I don't want to retype my recent experiences, but I have a thread from about 6 weeks ago that goes into my specific details here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42137229 I was in a good position so I could take my time, but I honestly don't know what I would have done if I had needed a position quickly.

All of you are being fed nonsense. During my 10 years of being a salaried employee I interviewed for only the first one.

All of the rest including Faang companies I went in without any interviews by knowing people and pulling strings. You shouldn't have to "apply" for anything.

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