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I automated my job application process

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Re: I automated my job application process

#311

Post by modmodmod »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #109
JonChesterfield wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fun variant: - scrape linkedin and apply to jobs based on the result - take the responses with "positive sentiment" and then contact the linkedin person Service is now connecting people with companies that already thought their generated CV was close enough to what they want. Call this a "recruitment agency".

> - scrape linkedin and apply to jobs based on the result That was my first thought when looking for jobs, but maybe I am naive, wouldn't this break their ToS?

do you really care though?

Re: I automated my job application process

#312

Post by biztos »

bovermyer wrote: post #269
cj wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also switched to only on-site interviews. My initial technical screenings are still done remotely. Pro tip for anyone hiring engineers for remote positions: Tell the applicant that there “might be” an in person technical assessment, even if you know the process will be 100% remote. The amount of fake candidates at the moment is insane. The only thing that makes fake candidates self-select out is knowing there’s t…

I agree with this approach. In this field, unless you're hiring a junior engineer, you can have a reasonable expectation that a potential candidate will fly out for an interview even if it's a 100% remote job. If they refuse, well, there's a chance it's just because they can't afford to. The chance is far greater, though, that you dodged a bullet.

What do you mean by "can't afford to?"

Because you can't possibly mean you think candidates are going to fly out for an interview at their own expense.

Traditionally (i.e. pre-Covid) flying out a senior candidate was the standard signal that both sides were taking the process seriously. And for competitive hires, the quality of the hotel and the restaurants they were taken to and the seniority of the people who joined for dinner were all very important indicators.

I've been working remote since 2009 but I kinda miss the old ways.

Re: I automated my job application process

#313

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

lostlogin wrote: post #80
cute_boi wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that many processes, from interviews to real work, are increasingly manipulated. I've noticed a pattern with candidates employed by certain consulting companies, especially in Texas and New Jersey. These companies often recruit low-cost labor from India, craft fake resumes, and submit them to platforms like LinkedIn. During interviews, candidates use tools like HDMI dual-screen setups, ChatGPT, Otter AI, or…

What’s the outsourced work from India like? Anything worth having?

Time difference is tough, unless you're ok with 7am or 10pm zoom calls.

Re: I automated my job application process

#314

Post by MrMember »

I'm seeing a lot of back in forth in the comments between hiring managers and employees discussing who is more responsible for the current situation, but from the perspective of someone looking for a job what should I be doing?

I've been pretty aggressively looking for a job for the past six months or so. I have 10+ years of professional software dev experience so I've mostly been looking at senior dev positions. I haven't used LLMs at all in my resume, cover letters, etc. I only apply to jobs that I believe I meet the requirements for and that I would likely accept if given an offer. How do I signal that 1) I am a real person 2) I really do have the job experience and skills listed on my resume, and 3) I really am interested in the specific job I'm applying for. Because doing this my hit rate has been abysmal. I've had maybe 10-12 initial phone screens (never an issue, I easily make it past these). Past that I've had maybe 3-4 interviews that get into the later rounds. From that I've had zero offers.

So why should I keep doing what I'm doing when it's getting me nowhere? Why shouldn't I switch to an automated "shotgun" approach that applies me to as many jobs as possible to which I vaguely fit the requirements? The only other way I've seen suggested to signal that I'm a real person with real experience is to know someone in the company who can vouch for me (which I almost never do).

Re: I automated my job application process

#315

Post by OutOfHere »

As a candidate, I strongly believe in not applying, in letting the company find you. Applying is a waste of time.

Also, one can get falsely accused of using ChatGPT in online interviews, so just don't start if the role doesn't have at least one on-site round. If you get ghosted or falsely accused anyway, report it on Glassdoor at once. Always also report the questions you were asked.

Re: I automated my job application process

#316

Post by jcutrell »

pknomad wrote: post #141
salomon812 wrote: post #131

I'm a software manager that has been doing some form of interviewing/hiring for 13 years. I did two rounds of hiring software engineers last year, one in spring that seemed normal, and one in the fall that was was brutal. The fall hiring had a flood of applicants, and in retrospect, most seemed like AI was used in some way. For the fall round, I suddenly had a higher percentage of applicants that qualified after resu…

I am a Platform Engineer and it feels like your experience mirrors mine. Like you, our challenge is filtering out large volume but also filtering out LLM abusers. We're not opposed to people using LLMs, when appropriate. I find that candidates inappropriately use it to circumvent the process and that is a big deal for me (and our team). We try to do the right thing(TM) by the candidates by creating minimal interview…

Remember - the vast majority of candidates who take the time to do right by your process get zero reward for their effort. You get a reward in the end, so it feels imbalanced. This is true for VERY good candidates, as well.

Re: I automated my job application process

#317

Post by tripper_27 »

Aurornis wrote: post #163
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not your company, but it seems hiring companies brought this upon themselves with immediate AI rejects of qualified candidates, ghost jobs, ghosting candidates after interview, etc, etc. If it takes a qualified candidate 100's of applications to land a single interview, then can you blame someone for automating it? I'd say that having the initiative and ability to automate it well would make this guy a great hi…

> If it takes a qualified candidate 100's of applications to land a single interview, then can you blame someone for automating it? Yes, a candidate is responsible for their own actions. This logic only sounds good until you’re on the hiring side and you see the stark difference between the LLM abuser applications and the people who are genuinely applying. Those people who have to apply to 100s of jobs are probably i…

> Those people who have to apply to 100s of jobs are probably in that situation because they’re spraying low-effort LLM resumes around and most hiring managers can see right through this game by now.

Just came off a brutal 7 month job search. And that's with a resume good enough, and care enough in jobs I applied to, that I got to the hiring manager with 1 of 10 applications (vs 1:100 or worse which is what I've heard is normal).

I think I interviewed at 50+ companies, which makes 500 or more applications.

Yes, this clearly says something about my interview skills, but there is a difference between interview skills and engineering/software skills-- I've done well in my career without having to heavily interview before (senior IC level) and I came by that strong resume honestly.

So please be careful about generalizing. I'm an example of someone who had to apply to 5x as many jobs as you say would be needed, and it would have been 50x if I didn't have a strong background and work ethic.

Re: I automated my job application process

#318

Post by internetter »

austin-cheney wrote: post #193

For hiring managers, if you getting a flood of resumes here is a possible solution for a filter: unpopular things and manual instructions. 1. Manual instructions. On the application submission page mention something like: All resumes or cover letters must copy and apply the following statement or will be dropped from consideration. This tests that candidates actually read and follow the instructions and rejections ca…

> they will be required to do something unpopular as a demonstration of prior coding experience. In my case as a JavaScript developer it was walking the DOM from one node location to another.

Is this open book? I can walk a DOM in many ways. With my eyes closed, I could hack something using `childNodes` and `nextSibling`, but the best way would be the the TreeWalker class, which I have previously used, though I couldn't write a working implementation on a whiteboard without briefly consulting MDN for a refresher. If you're just filtering candidates based on if they've memorized the ever-growing web standard, you're going to lose a lot of good candidates.

Re: I automated my job application process

#319

Post by internetter »

OutOfHere wrote: post #315

As a candidate, I strongly believe in not applying, in letting the company find you. Applying is a waste of time. Also, one can get falsely accused of using ChatGPT in online interviews, so just don't start if the role doesn't have at least one on-site round. If you get ghosted or falsely accused anyway, report it on Glassdoor at once. Always also report the questions you were asked.

> As a candidate, I strongly believe in not applying, in letting the company find you. Applying is a waste of time.

Easier said than done, innit? I'm privileged enough to have a relatively highly trafficked blog, as well as some social media following, so this could possibly for me, but plenty of candidates who are arguably more qualified than me don't have either.

Re: I automated my job application process

#320

Post by Gigachad »

imnotjames wrote: post #29
zwnow wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. You are the reason people go for these kinda solutions. Hiring process is complete bs.

What do you suggest?

Resumes must be dropped off at the office in person.
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