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Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

idealista.com

531–540 of 930 posts

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#531
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolute nonsense. Why would a "speculator" refuse to rent out their property and make a profit out of it?

To be able to sell it in the future a higher price without worrying about people living there, or having to pay money to mantain a building that is not in condition to be rented.

Right, because a run-down building sells for the same price as one in good shape.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#532
post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Squatting is a problem, period. Doesn’t matter if the house is empty or not.

Homelessness is a problem, even having to pay rent to another person to have a place to live is a problem. Squatting is just a strategy to fight an inherently oppressive private property norm.

Are you willing to provide your address so we can stay at your place? It would be inherently oppressive if you don't.

There are homeless shelters where people can have shelter without paying rent.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#533
post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the difference. How many hours or days can one be away. 1 hour, 1 day, 1 year?

I don't think there is a clear "N amount of days away from the residence means you're not actively living there", the court would look at many factors. For example, if it's evident the owner is intending to return, there is personal belongings, utility contracts in the owners name and such, courts would (probably) consider it your primary residence even if you take an extended leave from it. On the other hand, if you…

In what case does it make no difference to me, a person who bought or built a structure, that I can no longer use it and it has been stolen?

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's clearly a gap between imaginary noble okupas addressing housing crisis via occupation of unused bank property and reality of weed smoking anarchists and their collaborating deoccupying mafia harassing mostly not-so-rich middle class, who can't afford the security measures the rich can. I had a friend who bought a house that needed a lot of work. Before he could get started on the remodel, someone broke in t…

Im amazed your friend didnt come up with a swift solution, and what would the squatters do? call police and say they were squatting? show their rental agreement?? wouldnt have happened to me

Sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about. The "swift" solution would send you to jail in mere hours. You're presumed guilty. Yes, it defies any logic, but that's the way that it is.

My mom's husband had rented his previous flat (to complement his pension) to two women. They were working, very "normal" persons, and the contract specified that no other person could live there. One of them started dating a man and, a year later, there were three, then four (a child) living there. Then the other woman left (the guy was violent) and then the mother and her child had to flee too.

So my mom's husband had a guy that he never had any agreement with, living in his property, not paying rent, and not paying utilities. Now the law forbids to cut the utilities so you have to pay utilities for him. I think at the time (five years ago) it was still possible to cut. But the guy didn't care. After a year and a hell in courts, the flat was free again but a complete mess, broken furniture, mountains of junk. To weeks were needed just to clean, then paint, fixing doors, plumbing, etc.

He sold it ASAP. Now, I don't wonder why there's so little housing for rent.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I want for example to abolish private property of land and natural resources.

Fortunately, most citizens are not economically illiterate enough to support this ideology. Private ownership of land and natural resources is the foundation of 21st-Century economic prosperity.

No it's not. Private property created a world where 8 persons control as much wealth as the poorest half of humanity. This is not common prosperity, this is exploitation.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#536
post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's clearly a gap between imaginary noble okupas addressing housing crisis via occupation of unused bank property and reality of weed smoking anarchists and their collaborating deoccupying mafia harassing mostly not-so-rich middle class, who can't afford the security measures the rich can. I had a friend who bought a house that needed a lot of work. Before he could get started on the remodel, someone broke in t…

[flagged]

If we want to do away with the godly rights of property owners and let people keep whatever they can take and defend, I am deeply in support of this plan, but I can't imagine it shakes out how the squatters like to think it would.

We'd just be taking the scenic route to roughly what we have, except I'm short a bunch of ammo.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it’s not. Living where you want, for free, is not a right.

Yes, It is in Spain: Article 47 of Spanish Constitution: All Spaniards are entitled to enjoy decent and adequate housing. The public authorities shall promote the necessary conditions and shall establish appropriate standards in order to make this right effective, regulating land use in accordance with the general interest in order to prevent speculation.

Having a right to housing is not the same as having the right to "living where you want".

If they actually had that right then a Spaniard would have the right to live in the king's and politicians' houses which is obviously not a right.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#538
post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you own a second property and decide to rent it out and your tenant decides to stop paying rent you're fucked. Until they get an eviction notice from a court, which can take more than a year, you have to keep paying utilities for them. Nor can you change the locks. If the okupa has children you're even more fucked. Considering how many desokupa services exist I'd say it's a real problem.

> Considering how many desokupa services exist I'd say it's a real problem. How many does exists? I've only heard of one (literally called "Desokupa"), but you're saying there are many companies offering this, not just local chapters of the major one? Tried searching but could only find that one, and I couldn't find any sources on the number of companies existing offering this service either.

As they operate in a gray zone, they are generally not advertised. But even cops will give you numbers or info on how to join WhatsApp groups where you can hire someone.

Despite all the publicity, I've never heard of anyone using the company you referenced. At least not in Andalucía.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Squatters fight against private property which is usually protected by law, it's very rare that it goes the other direction. A lot of squatters want to abolish the possibility of someone having to pay rent to another person to have a place to live, considering that relation inherently oppressive and against a self-ownership of the individual.

Refusing to pay for a place to live is simply theft and entitlement. They expect people to build and maintain homes for them while doing nothing in return. If you abolish property rights, your two options are state slavery or anarchy where the strong take whatever they can. These misguided ideologies can only live parasitic ally on the fringe of a otherwise functional society. If they got their way, the society would…

> while doing nothing in return

If you could see the extent of organization that such a life requires, you wouldn't say that. Especially when the alternative is "I bought this place and now you have to pay to live there" which is the highest form of doing nothing.

Re: Squatting in Spain: Understanding Spain's "okupas" problem

#540

"The rise of okupation"... but they make no references to data. Here is the data (in Spanish) [1]. The difference between trespassing (that somebody enters in the house you live) and usurpation (the house is yours but is not where you live) is very important. Both problems are way less prevalent than what appears on the media (see [1]), but trespassing is waaay lower (and as the owner you have better mechanisms to re…

> usurpation (the house is yours but is not where you live)

I wonder if you can register that house as the address of a non-profit corporation, and since the corporation always lives there, the okupas become trespassers.

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