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Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

minnesotareformer.com

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Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#531

Post by danny_codes »

hellojesus wrote: post #511
earthscienceman wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you tell me, with sincere curiosity, how you expect being able to buy modern handguns to make America less violent? I ask as a gun owner.

There's a saying, "An armed society is a polite society." The reason is because of perceived threat. If very few people are armed, people are more likely to act a fool because they don't fear the consequences from npcs. Risk taking along these lines increases as does the physical delta. But as the probability of random npc folks carrying approaches one, suddenly there is a very real chance that acting a fool carries…

Except for the fact that this doesn't work at all in practice, it makes perfect sense.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#532

Post by pkulak »

a-french-anon wrote: post #499
pkulak wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, just so I understand, bad guys all have guns. And you wish you could have one too, for protection against said bad guys. But why is a firefight preferable to a mugging?

There's that little something called "dignity". You know, trying to do something about your situation instead of rolling over and praying for the meanies to be lenient with you.

I find dignity in being alive for my family.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#533

Post by VirusNewbie »

phatskat wrote: post #493
VirusNewbie wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your idea has many flaws, but I am very surprised and happy to see novel approaches here, and it absolutely represents my favorite part of HackerNews. Probably the reason policing is sub optimal is due to the fact that it is funded by the city, so more prosperous areas can pay more, and recruit the best cops, while the areas with less income often can't pay as well, (or enough to offset the risks). Compare th…

> Compare this to schooling, where it's largely funded through the county, so the county often pays less in the nicer areas, knowing the job is easier. Most school funding comes through property taxes - it’s a nice way to avoid saying “we’re funding schools in poorer areas using fewer resources” while saying absolutely that.

> it’s a nice way to avoid saying “we’re funding schools in poorer areas using fewer resources” while saying absolutely that.

This is not true in California. Property taxes are collected by the county in CA, and then distributed to the cities most in need. Beverly Hills doesn't get more school funding than East LA just because their property tax revenue is 10x higher.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#534

Post by [deleted] »

diogenes4 wrote: post #453
vlovich123 wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, so they’ve culturally made it impossible for the government to go after them and legally impossible for citizens. Pretty sweet deal.

There are many reasons why police serve the role they do in society. Neglecting other reasons other than blatant racketeering—the role they play in preserving the institution of private property, the role they play in filling prisons, the role they play in preserving the illusion of justice—serves nobody.

[deleted]

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#535

Post by Jerrrry »

pkulak wrote: post #532
a-french-anon wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's that little something called "dignity". You know, trying to do something about your situation instead of rolling over and praying for the meanies to be lenient with you.

I find dignity in being alive for my family.

Which is why you should practice carry and conceal, and hopefully never have to draw on it.

You can always just give the muggers everything, including your gun.

You can't barter back your (or your family's) life, and putting the massive asymmetry in the benefit of the doubt of a known assailant is maddeningly naive to a point of near literal cuckoldry.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#536

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

mlrtime wrote: post #501
makeitdouble wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without anyone offering a clear, compelling alternative approach A minor gripe: asking protesters of a utterly shitty, but long standing, complex and entranched situation, to come up clear, simple and compelling alternatives is generally unfair. In particular the political process should work in reverse: people voice issues, and their governing bodies come up with viable solutions. That's their job. > police qualit…

I see your point that it's the role of governing bodies to find solutions to complex issues raised by the public. However, isn't there also some responsibility on the part of the protestors to articulate what specific changes they'd like to see, rather than resorting to extreme actions like property destruction? After all, clear demands can make it easier for those in power to act effectively.

while not everyone agreed on everything, there was unambiguous consensus to end the invincibility of corrupt cops engaging in police brutality (and to end the police brutality itself)

that's a pretty clear problem for government officials to figure out how to solve

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#537

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #523
School-Cotton wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is an extremely flawed democracy. If the US were a functional democracy then maybe popular will would control the police, but it’s not.

Local police are mostly controlled by local institutions, no? Not sure the quality of US institutions at the national level is all that relevant. Note, I'm not claiming that local police are great. I just think that the situation is probably possible to improve, if we work strategically. BTW, in 2022 the Economist Intelligence Unit ranked US democracy above that of Belgium, Italy, Latvia, Panama, and Singapore: https…

> Local police are mostly controlled by local institutions, no?

No, they are mostly not controlled by anyone except themselves, and aren't accountable to anybody, because they can disobey and/or corruptly coerce and/or retaliate against people, including elected government officials, who try to hold them accountable, with no repercussions.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#538

Post by Jerrrry »

MrJohz wrote: post #473
lazide wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ho man, that’s like saying we’ll stop war by banning nuclear weapons. 1) the really problematic people won’t care 2) the ‘normal’ people will just be left defenseless and be preyed upon with fewer worries by the #1 cases. 3) which incentivizes the crazies to arm up more so they’ll have leverage. Notably, this is exactly what happened with nuclear proliferation bans, if we’re being honest. Assuming it’s not actually p…

I don't know why you're jumping to nuclear weapons as your analogy when gun control laws in other countries make a far better comparison point. Australia is probably a good example here: they have urban and suburban centres in the cities, but they also have vast rural areas. Guns are not banned but limited and regulated. They do not seem to have had this issue where people have been left defenceless by crazy people w…

>They do not seem to have had this issue where people have been left defenceless by crazy people with guns.

You have had your head in the sand for the last few years.

unarmed teenagers being hit with pepper spray for violating a prude curfew by gun-wielding tyrants is an issue to a more civilized, reasonable person.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#539

Post by TurkishPoptart »

NullInvictus wrote: post #310

You have to have been raised pretty sweetly to not have known this kind of racketeering was a 'thing' for a very long time. Pressure to hire cops is rampant. 'rent-a-cop' is not aimed at the fact that security companies apply aggressive mimicry to their people, but that these people are themselves often off-duty cops. Security companies are strongly "encouraged" to hire off-duty cops, and find themselves left out to…

Yes, but this epidemic of urban crime is very new for our generation. We haven't had these "catch-and-release" policies with violent criminals. We haven't legalized shoplifting for sums under $950 before. We haven't had DAs in many major cities that are opposed to jailing violent offenders for "diversity and equity" reasons.

Re: Small business owners say they're pressured to hire off-duty cops for security

#540

Post by pkulak »

Jerrrry wrote: post #535
pkulak wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find dignity in being alive for my family.

Which is why you should practice carry and conceal, and hopefully never have to draw on it. You can always just give the muggers everything, including your gun. You can't barter back your (or your family's) life, and putting the massive asymmetry in the benefit of the doubt of a known assailant is maddeningly naive to a point of near literal cuckoldry.

If I'm always giving the mugger my gun, why carry it? Seems like the danger from having a gun on my person and in my house vastly outnumbers the chance I become Dirty Harry for an evening, no matter how thrilling that thought is. And I won't be Dirty Harry, I'll be Bernie Goetz. No thanks.

> asymmetry in the benefit of the doubt of a known assailant is maddeningly naive to a point of near literal cuckoldry

Don't try to impress people with words, impress with ideas.

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