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Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

cnbc.com

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Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#531

Post by pclmulqdq »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #363
pclmulqdq wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Honda had 2 recalls on it recently: one was a software update and the other was over the fact that a few of the cables on the audio system were slightly too short. This sounds like the same thing other than the fact that I had to pop over to the dealership to do them. Even with the cable replacement, in and out in an hour with a nice lounge to sit in.

If the software update has to be done physically at a dealer location, that's a recall. The scenario in this article is an over-the-air update.

I wasn't told about either of these recalls, though. I went in because the audio was clicking, and they told me they had 2 recalls out on my car, including for the audio issue, and that it was a quick fix.

Normally, it happens with an oil change.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#532

Post by mrguyorama »

maxdo wrote: post #298
pclmulqdq wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that the people who want one of those will want them if: * they are not the first (or in the first ~50 or so) to get there * they have a lot of money and a lot of income on Earth This is kind of a glory-seeking thing for people who haven't made a name for themselves otherwise. Rich people would want to have a return flight. That is not a recipe for making a ton of money.

think of it this way: you go there, work for a company, in a spare time, you find gold, raise capital to start mining it, got rich, build a huge house with swimming pools, and all the rich attributes, but on Mars. Mars will be colonized with great mixture of science and initiative people. Your kids will grew up in this environment, they'll receive best education and endless room for possibilities.

Surely elon will allow lots of other people to get rich, instead of just capturing any possible value for himself, since he would literally be a god emperor.

There are no rules on mars, except the ones that the people who could simply push you out the airlock make. Look how elon treats his workers and you will understand how a mars colony with his backing will look, except even worse.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#533

Post by ggreer »

lastLinkedList wrote: post #249
rootusrootus wrote: post #50

Meanwhile, the only actual L3 capable car is a Mercedes. Plenty of people will argue that AP is actually superior, but I don't think there's any way to say that for sure, given the tight constraints Mercedes has put on their driver assistance in order to lower the liability enough to make L3 not a bankruptcy event. For certain, however, they are more confident in their technology than Tesla is, otherwise Tesla would…

Don't LIDAR/radar sensors (I'm not familiar with exactly what the options are) have benefits that vision doesn't have, like working in poor lighting/visibility? Why would Tesla move away from these sensors?

Lidar has advantages over cameras but it also has some downsides. Sunlight, rain, and snow can interfere with the sensors, as can other nearby lidar devices (though de-noising algorithms are always improving). There are also issues with object detection. Lidar gives you a point cloud, and you need software that can detect and categorize things from that point cloud. Because lidar is new, this problem hasn't had as much R&D put into it as similar problems in computer vision.

Then there's the issue of sensor fusion. Lidar requires sensor fusion because it can't see road lines, traffic signals, or signs. It also can't see lights on vehicles or pedestrians. So you still have to solve most of the computer vision issues and you have to build software that can reliably merge the data from both sensors. What if the sensors disagree? If you err on the side of caution and brake if either sensor detects an object, you get lots of false positives and phantom braking (increasing the chance of rear-end collisions). If you YOLO it, you might hit something. If you improve the software to the point that lidar and cameras never disagree, well then what do you need lidar for?

I think lidar will become more prevalent, and I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla added it to their vehicles in the future. But the primary sensor will always be cameras.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#534

Post by buffington »

now__what wrote: post #507
diebeforei485 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recall implies something being returned. This should be called a mandatory software patch, or something like that. The problem is Tesla owners repeatedly see "recall" to mean "software update", so this might lead to a lot of confusion if a physical recall is actually required in the future.

In auto recalls, "recall" more generally implies something being repaired than returned, IME

It implies neither.

A recall is a legal process only. Whether the recall repairs, replaces, adjusts something doesn't matter. Whether a fix is applied as software, or labor, or replacement parts doesn't matter. Whether a customer needs to do something or not doesn't matter.

A recall simply says: as a manufacturer, working with government authorities, while taking specific prescribed steps to communicate and correct an issue at the cost of the manufacturer, the manufacturer is then immune from lawsuits that could arise were they to ignore the issue.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#535

Post by bigtex88 »

alberth wrote: post #271

Dumb question: why would anyone sign-up for a beta program, that could kill you if gone wrong? (maybe people just don't think through ramifications)

“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”

― George Carlin

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#536

Post by londons_explore »

apnew wrote: post #64

> The FSD Beta system may cause crashes by allowing the affected vehicles to: “act unsafe around intersections, such as traveling straight through an intersection while in a turn-only lane, entering a stop sign-controlled intersection without coming to a complete stop, or proceeding into an intersection during a steady yellow traffic signal without due caution,” according to the notice on the website of the National…

I suspect they have thousands of tests, but ship code that passes only most of the tests...

That's what makes it unfinished...

It's never passed the 'drive from new York to LA with nobody touching the controls' test...

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#537

Post by TheCoelacanth »

t0mas88 wrote: post #431
jeffbee wrote: post #378

The word "assertive" does not appear in the comments but this recall is about the "Assertive" FSD profile, which speeds and runs stop signs. It is not a defect it is a design flaw.

It's a defect in Tesla's engineering teams to release that kind of thing. Their self driving is a fraud, it does not work. Their CEO has claimed "it will be ready next year" for literally 8 years now. How much more bullshit is he going to sell?

It's a defect in the US legal system that Musk didn't see the inside of a jail cell five minutes after that feature was inflicted upon public roads.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#538

Post by bigtex88 »

linsomniac wrote: post #433
alberth wrote: post #271

Dumb question: why would anyone sign-up for a beta program, that could kill you if gone wrong? (maybe people just don't think through ramifications)

How would the FSD beta program kill me? I realize that not everybody is in agreement, but I personally use the FSD beta while remaining fully in control of the vehicle. I steer with it, I watch the road conditions, I check my blind spots when it is changing lanes, I hit the accelerator if it is slowing unexpectedly, I hit the brakes if it is not... You know, basically behaving exactly as the terms you have to agree t…

It would kill you by messing up...? Your question is insane. It kills you by fucking up and you don't have time to correct the car.

Good for you that you apparently know how to "use it correctly" or whatever but that's not exactly the point here.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#539

Post by notyourwork »

Kranar wrote: post #518
saudade97 wrote: post #494

The amount of Tesla apologism in HN is nasueasting. Per the NHTSA, a safety recall is issued if either the manufacturer or the NHTSA determines that a vehicle or its equipment pose a safety risk or do not meet motor vehicle safety standards. On its face, Tesla's situation clearly calls out for classification as a recall.

Meh, the term recall conjures images of vehicles having to be taken back to the dealership to get repaired, replaced, or refunded. The recall announced here is just an over the air software update. It's worth pointing this out.

It’s really not a differentiator. Is it? Issue is still an issue and must be addressed. OTA doesn’t change that.

Re: Tesla recalls 360k vehicles, says full self-driving beta may cause crashes

#540

Post by joering2 »

bigtex88 wrote: post #524
saudade97 wrote: post #494

The amount of Tesla apologism in HN is nasueasting. Per the NHTSA, a safety recall is issued if either the manufacturer or the NHTSA determines that a vehicle or its equipment pose a safety risk or do not meet motor vehicle safety standards. On its face, Tesla's situation clearly calls out for classification as a recall.

We live in a strange world. No one should worship that sad narcissistic piece of crap but yet the sycophants continue to multiply.

I think this has to do with the growing margin between the richest/upper class and poorest folks. Sure you find plenty of HN folks doing 3.5 X average salary.. but majority, considering inflation etc, are not doing this well.

So average poor Joe looks at Musk and instead of seeing him for what he is, he cheers him up, thinking "one day I will be like him [that rich], so I would want people to cherish me the way I cherish him now". I think we see that on every front, sadly including politics. I mean people like Boebert or MTG should have never had any power even to decide what mix to use to clean a dirty floor, yet alone deciding on millions of American's fate, but yet here we are...

If anything, this numbness and ignorance will grow.

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