Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#531

Post by shyn3 » Tue, Feb 07, 2023, 10:33 PM UTC

sn0wf1re wrote: post #393

HDThoreaun wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they didn't really do anything with it at all because they didn't have to. They didn't do anything with it because chatbots are unequivocally a worse business model than the current search paradigm. They cost exponentially more to run and are much harder to organically advertise with without scaring away users by making the chat responses themselves ads. If the future of search is chatbots Google is facing existent…

It reminds me of the Tiktok vs Youtube comparison. Ad revenue was way higher on long format content, but the success of Tiktok means that Youtube now has to pay more to creators, even if their margins are lower. AI as search is lower margin but Google will need to implement it just to stay relevant.

YouTube is heavily investing in shorts as well but a bit late.

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#532

Post by NovaPenguin » Tue, Feb 07, 2023, 10:33 PM UTC

davesque wrote: post #289

epups wrote: post #80

This is a potentially momentous occasion here. Microsoft is betting hard that they can mount a challenge to Google, and I think ChatGPT can credibly attempt that. The answer from Google so far is weak. The thought that Bing may actually overtake Google would be hilarious a few months ago, and now it looks... possible?

Yep. If Microsoft somehow overtakes Google from the back with Bing and ChatGPT, it'll be the tech coup of the century. And it's so fascinating how Google's position as an AI think tank put them at a tremendous disadvantage. They didn't cut a deal with OpenAI because why should they? After all, they originated much of the research that led to GPT3. But then they didn't really do anything with it at all because they di…

Always reminded that Nokia had one of the largest R&D budgets for mobile technology and got blind sided by iPhone and subsequent smart phones. Doesn't matter how ahead of the curve on paper you are if you cannot implement it into something that people want.

"Real Artists Ship" - Steve Jobs

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#533

Post by ux-app » Tue, Feb 07, 2023, 10:34 PM UTC

Fatnino wrote: post #280

partiallypro wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, the integration with Edge is far more important. Then you are taking it with you anywhere and eventually I'm sure you can just have it interact with a page you're on. Google losing Chrome users in a measurable way would be massive. One challenge though is how this will work on mobile devices where Google will have a much more entrenched advantage.

Are people using Edge? I don't use windows much anymore so I wouldn't know. But yesterday my dad asked for help logging into TurboTax. He had the login page open in Edge and ui elements were just not responding to clicks. I didn't spend any time trying to debug that and simply opened the page in Firefox where it worked perfectly.

yes, it's a great browser

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#534

Post by visarga » Tue, Feb 07, 2023, 10:35 PM UTC

sailingparrot wrote: post #408

paulpan wrote: post #28

Most interesting tidbits: 1 - Sam Altman onstage all but confirmed the underlying LLM model as GPT-4 as he kept saying "next gen" without providing a name 2 - Microsoft is all-in by making this front-and-center of Bing, as well as deep integration into Edge browser I'm most curious about how Microsoft is planning to pay for the infrastructure cost of serving the traffic.

> all but confirmed the underlying LLM model as GPT-4 as he kept saying "next gen" without providing a name 2 It is not. It's still 3.5: "Microsoft says these features are all powered by an upgraded version of GPT 3.5, the AI OpenAI language model that powers ChatGPT. Microsoft calls this the “Prometheus Model,” and says it’s more powerful than GPT 3.5, and better able to answer search queries with up-to-date informa…

An upgraded version could be 4.0

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#535

Post by NikolaNovak » Tue, Feb 07, 2023, 10:35 PM UTC

lottin wrote: post #433

sn0wf1re wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It reminds me of the Tiktok vs Youtube comparison. Ad revenue was way higher on long format content, but the success of Tiktok means that Youtube now has to pay more to creators, even if their margins are lower. AI as search is lower margin but Google will need to implement it just to stay relevant.

Tiktok succeeded because it offered something that the public wanted. I don't know that a chat bot is something that the public wants. I know I have no use for it.

It is astonishing to me for someone to find no uses for it.

We've been reading three custom made children adventure stories to our kids every night.

My wife made custom black history month trivia, quizzes and posters

I learned more about basic financial terms, music theory, caught up on concussion treatment and myriad other things

We created quick rhymes for school

And I feel there are astonishing things I haven't even touched on! Like ten million things.

I'm exceedingly polite to the chat AI because I cannot believe I'm lucky and privileged enough to use something this awesome in my lifetime.

I feel like a kid in candy store :). I cannot imagine that somebody can find NO USE for it!

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#536

Post by jbenjoseph » Tue, Feb 07, 2023, 10:37 PM UTC

HDThoreaun wrote: post #388

davesque wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. If Microsoft somehow overtakes Google from the back with Bing and ChatGPT, it'll be the tech coup of the century. And it's so fascinating how Google's position as an AI think tank put them at a tremendous disadvantage. They didn't cut a deal with OpenAI because why should they? After all, they originated much of the research that led to GPT3. But then they didn't really do anything with it at all because they di…

> they didn't really do anything with it at all because they didn't have to. They didn't do anything with it because chatbots are unequivocally a worse business model than the current search paradigm. They cost exponentially more to run and are much harder to organically advertise with without scaring away users by making the chat responses themselves ads. If the future of search is chatbots Google is facing existent…

I disagree. There is a ton of money to be made. Advertisements can be even more lucrative, we just have to rethink the whole idea of advertisement. Imagine the chat bot as a digital salesperson, but for literally everything. It can even be optimized in a manner that if a user asks for too much work that doesn't involve selling you products (eg. writing essays) it can go "I'm Sorry Dave, but you need a ChatGPT Premium Subscription(tm) for that."

As far as computational costs. These chat bots are not remotely maximally optimized. Sure it costs more to run but it is still on the order of pennies per user per day.

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#537

Post by luckylion » Tue, Feb 07, 2023, 10:37 PM UTC

dharma1 wrote: post #434

luckylion wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they'd have to get ChatGPT to stop spewing up made up bullshit and fake academic citations firs Why? The alternative is reading your way through SEO spam (and soon: reading yourself through ChatGPT-generated SEO spam), which is often just as wrong. Source: am working for SEOs.

Yes - I’m more hopeful of LLMs (or whatever replaces them over time) getting more truthful and accurate sooner than we get rid of SEO spam. I would also imagine SEO spam gets worse soon with LLMs.

The incentives are very different. With SEO spam, you have a direct monetary incentive. More spam = more clicks = more money. With LLMs extracting information and answering questions without actually sending the user to the site ... what's the incentive to create low-accuracy content to be ingested, beyond "I want to mess with the data set"?

I'm sure there will be a few people going down that route, but that needs a lot of intrinsic motivation. It's a very different beast vs having a multi-billion dollar market draw in millions of interested parties, and you can concentrate on identifying the saboteurs and filtering them out, which feels easier, especially because it's hard to impossible to identify "shadow-banning".

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#538

Post by HDThoreaun » Tue, Feb 07, 2023, 10:38 PM UTC

unoti wrote: post #524

HDThoreaun wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they didn't really do anything with it at all because they didn't have to. They didn't do anything with it because chatbots are unequivocally a worse business model than the current search paradigm. They cost exponentially more to run and are much harder to organically advertise with without scaring away users by making the chat responses themselves ads. If the future of search is chatbots Google is facing existent…

> They didn't do anything with it because chatbots are unequivocally a worse business model than the current search paradigm. I'm not so sure. Imagine having a human assistant that's smart enough to pass the bar, get an MBA, pass medical exams, and knows how to work on your car, and is good at brainstorming, and and and... And having that person do searches for you. Are you sure that working with this assistant would…

Oh the chatbots absolutely have the potential to create tons of value. The question is if its creator can harvest it/how much will be left with the consumer vs the producer. I suspect that it will still be very difficult to get people to sign up for subscriptions and advertising will be less effective than current search advertising so the chatbot creator will have difficult harvesting the value they create.

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#539

Post by visarga » Tue, Feb 07, 2023, 10:39 PM UTC

ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #448

eklitzke wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The profit margins of cloud providers are nowhere close to that. GCP and Azure currently lose money for Google and Microsoft, AWS is profitable but their profit margins are absolutely not 100x.

Microsoft, in this case, is pouring billions into this, and the industry at large, from Alphabet to LAION is in an arms race. They will optimize it beyond belief, x100 is rather low, come to think of it. I fully expect to be able to run your own ChatGPT on one DGX H100 unit (640GB GPU memory) in 18 months or less.

> GLM-130B, a model comparable with GPT-3, has 130 billion parameters in FP16 precision, a total of 260G of GPU memory is required to store model weights. The DGX-A100 server has 8 A100s and provides an amount of 320G of GPU memory (640G for 80G A100 version) so it suits GLM-130B well.

https://github.com/THUDM/GLM-130B/blob/main/docs/low-resourc...

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#540

Post by NovaPenguin » Tue, Feb 07, 2023, 10:39 PM UTC

WillAdams wrote: post #506

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be the overtaking of the century. Let's see. Bing market share in the US = Edge market share in the US = 50% of internet traffic comes from phones). Even if they get 100% of Google searches on Edge-devices to go to Bing (which they'll be lucky if they even get to 50% on their platforms) - it will hardly do anything... The rate at which Edge is becoming irrelevant as people transition traffic to laptops (more lik…

The thing is, the current Edge is just a re-badged Chromium --- I really miss the old version which was kinder to battery life, had a smaller memory footprint, and integrated an e-reader for ePub files.

That and just having a software base that was different from everyone else. It was funny, back when MS announced the change, here I was, a big Free/Libre software guy defending Microsofts proprietary browser with a journalist from Business Insider! Never did figure out if they did anything with that.