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Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

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Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#531

Post by Aeolun »

TheRealSteve wrote: post #507
randomdata wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now read it again as the entire document that it is. While I can see where you are coming from, your theme doesn't carry into the points you conveniently left out. Once you put it together, you'll realize that the message is: 1. Deliver software. You won't have a manager hounding you to do so. 2. Do good work. You won't have a manager questioning what you've done. 3. Don't spend more time programming than you need to…

Being a developer without a good Engineering Manager is a futile exercise in my experience. Software developers deliver quality work and solve problems efficiently as a matter course. If not, they should be let go to work someplace else, potentially outside the software trade. Saying those skills are exclusive to followers of the agile manifesto is silly. Find a good manager that brings you opportunities and respects…

> Saying those skills are exclusive to followers of the agile manifesto is silly

It’s silly to be absolute about it, but I think there’s probably a large overlap between competent engineers and people that agree that the agile manifesto is generally a good thing.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#532

Post by davidw »

thrdbndndn wrote: post #498
davidw wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the real "unicorns" are * Small/medium size companies where you recognize most everyone even if you don't work with them. There are enough people so you don't have to do things you're not qualified for like in the very early days of a startup. * Steady growth, but not crazy, venture fueled moonshots. * Selling something that earns enough money to grow the business in a fairly organic way. I worked in a place…

Just curious: why you didn't work there anymore?

Moved halfway around the world. That company is still doing well from what I can see.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#533

Post by TheRealSteve »

Aeolun wrote: post #531
TheRealSteve wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a developer without a good Engineering Manager is a futile exercise in my experience. Software developers deliver quality work and solve problems efficiently as a matter course. If not, they should be let go to work someplace else, potentially outside the software trade. Saying those skills are exclusive to followers of the agile manifesto is silly. Find a good manager that brings you opportunities and respects…

> Saying those skills are exclusive to followers of the agile manifesto is silly It’s silly to be absolute about it, but I think there’s probably a large overlap between competent engineers and people that agree that the agile manifesto is generally a good thing.

That's fair. In that spectrum I'd rank folks that see agile as but one tool in the shed higher than those that agree it's _the_ way to execute projects.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#534

Post by 59nadir »

wpietri wrote: post #381
ianmcgowan wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that this generation's revolutionaries are always the next generation's reactionaries..

In this case, not so much. Most of the early Agile people I've had the chance to talk with are a bit horrified by what it's become.

Indeed. Most of the commentary I've seen from people who were around is that scrum isn't agile but just an impotent compromise made by people who thought business could never actually handle an actually agile (as in flexible) work methodology. I think they're mostly right; Scrum really isn't very flexible.

On top of that, like most popular languages and technologies it isn't really good enough for people who care, but it's good enough for people who don't and also happens to please "biz" people.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#535

Post by andrewflnr »

Aeolun wrote: post #518
mulmen wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in a place like that and it was awesome. Unfortunately we were so good at what we did across the board that we got bought by another company to integrate into their larger offering. It made a lot of sense from a business perspective but the tech team in our office was made redundant and so my time there came to an end. I think this is the inevitable conclusion to good, small companies. Since it actually work…

Is it really that hard for owners to resist the alure of a buyout? I dunno, I always like to think that I’d continue doing the good thing that I’ve got going.

I really don't want to believe everyone has a price, since that would mean I have one, but the evidence offers very few if any solid counterexamples.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#536

Post by SoylentYellow »

RussianCow wrote: post #202
barrenko wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agile is like socialism at times.

I'm not sure what this means.

Socialism has a somewhat agreed upon base set of principles and comes in a thousand different flavors, but at the end of the day every large scale attempt has ended up with an authoritarian state and either failed or converted to Capitalism. So whenever you say Socialism is a failure, you end up hearing "Well THAT wasn't really Socialism!" Same with Agile.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#537

Post by andrewflnr »

nerdile wrote: post #133
rco8786 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m really confused. What was the motivation of the hiring company here?

More context at https://news.ycombinator.com/context?id=29969359

That is a rather different story indeed. They made it sound here like they weren't working at all in that five months.

Re: Ask HN: Do you hate software engineering but love programming?

#538

Post by pillefitz »

lifeplusplus wrote: post #141
pdntspa wrote: post #55

I love most of the things around writing code but absolutely despise all the people that have popped up around it. Software engineering feels like a jobs program where we let nontechnical freeloaders figure out how to insert themselves into our process. I think that part of the reason that software sucks so much now is that the people designing it don't love software and technology the way we do, and it shows. I thin…

Precisely my feeling on this topic. We don't need scrum Masters, product managers and even most managers who are not technical. Too many people trying to have a say in something they have no expertise in. Basically software engineers are treated like a coding monkey.

Good luck handling software development, talking to customers, gathering requirements, aligning with other teams, doing marketing, writing budget requests - all by yourself.
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