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Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

economist.com

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Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#531

Post by raverbashing »

ryandrake wrote: post #470
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's very fair to have differing attitudes/moral thresholds for an impoverished mother shoplifting a week's worth of baby formula versus "a couple in Alabama [which] pled guilty to shifting $300,000-worth of stolen baby formula on eBay". I’ve also noticed a weird tendency to downplay theft lately, either through projecting a theoretical moral justification on to the shoplifter or by insinuating that retail…

> I’ve also noticed a weird tendency to downplay theft lately, either through projecting a theoretical moral justification on to the shoplifter or by insinuating that retail stores are evil corporations and therefore deserve no sympathy. Let me try to convince you without defending the morality of the shoplifter or declaring corporations evil. 1. On the totem pole of crimes, petty shoplifting (without violence) is pr…

> already build shrinkage into their budgets

This is a shortsighted take. This is as stupid as the corporations buying "cyber insurance" not realizing the cases are going up and that prevention and processes are needed. Then comes next year their premiums shoot up. Who would have thought it?!

Yes they "build shrinkage" for a forecasted number. If that number goes up and you get people swiping large amounts of products that number becomes meaningless. Then people wonder why did the store close or why a deodorant there costs $10 and is locked behind the counter

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#532

Post by crackercrews »

ehnto wrote: post #527
crackercrews wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many do you go through? Probably 2 for me. Definitely not more than 3.

I think this conversation will be measuring string. Too many variables. What size container? What's the weather like where you are? How much do you put on each application? What do you do day to day? What's the weather like where you live? I live in Australia, and I am really active. Safe to say I will be sweating a lot more than someone living in Alaska who's a homebody, and so may use a bit more deodorant.

Usage will vary. But the original statement made it seem like it would be unreasonable to use only one or two in a year.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#533

Post by rullelito »

public_defender wrote: post #159

Expert in stolen goods here. I was talking to a NYC colleague the other day about how there are trends in favor of not punishing people for certain criminal activity in the city. We were talking about driving with a suspended license, but I asked about shoplifting. She said, "Oh, no. That's on the opposite trend. Not only are they prosecuting it to the maximum, but they just changed the law to make it easier to hold…

Expert in making stuff up perhaps.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#534

Post by WalterBright »

_carbyau_ wrote: post #395
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of those statements that feels good when no specifics are on the table, but if it was ever implemented we’d be seeing countless HN stories complaining about how Amazon is requiring sellers to provide too much documentation or closing their accounts for suspected dealing in stolen goods or something. Heavy handed regulation always sounds better in hypothetical perfect knowledge scenarios, but kind of sucks…

Simply trying to rent a house here in Australia requires submitting a goldmine for identity theft. ID's, bank statements, workplace statements to prove you have a job and the list goes on. And that simply gets you an application. No guarantee of being picked. I have zero problems with a business having to prove - to whatever degree - they are legit. Finance institutions have a KYC thing. Maybe Amazon needs a KYTrader…

In NYC, to rent an apartment requires you to submit your tax returns. Unbelievable.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#535

Post by Ekaros »

alkonaut wrote: post #518

A cheap deodorant (Dove/whatever) is like $2-3 in expensive parts of Europe. That's not worth stealing. What makes them $8 or $10 in manhattan? It's an expensive area and I guess there aren't many large stores to buy from but more smaller pharmacies, but that still doesn't explain why there is a 2-3x price difference for deodorants in particular.

Commercial real-estate. When your store cost at least 10k or even more in rent. You have to sell awfully many deodorants to cover it. And labour isn't exactly cheap either if you want to get some.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#536

Post by WalterBright »

ryandrake wrote: post #470
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's very fair to have differing attitudes/moral thresholds for an impoverished mother shoplifting a week's worth of baby formula versus "a couple in Alabama [which] pled guilty to shifting $300,000-worth of stolen baby formula on eBay". I’ve also noticed a weird tendency to downplay theft lately, either through projecting a theoretical moral justification on to the shoplifter or by insinuating that retail…

> I’ve also noticed a weird tendency to downplay theft lately, either through projecting a theoretical moral justification on to the shoplifter or by insinuating that retail stores are evil corporations and therefore deserve no sympathy. Let me try to convince you without defending the morality of the shoplifter or declaring corporations evil. 1. On the totem pole of crimes, petty shoplifting (without violence) is pr…

From the article:

"Rite Aid, a pharmacy, closed a branch in Hell’s Kitchen in February after losing $200,000 worth of stuff last winter. And last week Target, a big retailer, reported that a rise in “shrink” (to use the industry jargon) had reduced its gross profit margin by $400m so far this year. The National Retail Federation says inventory loss, largely driven by theft, cost retailers a record $95bn last year."

It seems that $300k is several orders of magnitude off.

The harm to the public is when the stores find it unprofitable to exist in certain neighborhoods, which makes the neighborhoods even worse off. If the stores don't close, then prices have to rise to pay for the shrinkage, which the public has to pay for.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#537

Post by woodruffw »

notch656a wrote: post #526
woodruffw wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, I’m not. Amazon receives unimaginable amounts of goods, of which only a vanishingly small fraction is stolen goods. This simply does not matter in the eyes of the law. What matters is receiving stolen goods, period . The degree to which they do will solely determine the degree of the statute applied. I think I'm just repeating myself at this point, so this will be the last time: there are different standards fo…

I'm really interested why these "warnings" weren't subpoenas or warrants, especially if this is happening in multiple municipalities as you state. Is it some conspiracy across the US to not charge Amazon when probable cause is present, but instead send "warnings." Not saying warnings don't happen when probable cause exists to prosecute a crime, but I think we're missing the content of these warnings before we get ahe…

This is just baseless speculation on my part, but: municipalities don’t really want to take companies to court if they don’t have to. It’s expensive, politically risky, etc.

Besides, providing a warning actually helps the prosecution establish the crime: it’s much easier to argue negligence or recklessness if they can produce a history of repeatedly giving the company an opportunity to fix identified issues.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#538

Post by raverbashing »

jahnu wrote: post #520
oerpli wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the streets are safer with some of those people in Riker.

Short term. What happens long term? What are the aggregate consequences of such policies to society? I don't know the answers to these questions, I would want an expert to weigh in.

> What are the aggregate consequences of such policies to society?

Might ask yourself the same question about shoplifting gangs being let loose

And if Riker's is a problem, then deal with that specific problem. Not prosecuting people seems to be one level removed from it. (yes, they are connected, but for example, not sending pre-trial people there could be a start)

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#539

Post by monero-xmr »

ryandrake wrote: post #470
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's very fair to have differing attitudes/moral thresholds for an impoverished mother shoplifting a week's worth of baby formula versus "a couple in Alabama [which] pled guilty to shifting $300,000-worth of stolen baby formula on eBay". I’ve also noticed a weird tendency to downplay theft lately, either through projecting a theoretical moral justification on to the shoplifter or by insinuating that retail…

> I’ve also noticed a weird tendency to downplay theft lately, either through projecting a theoretical moral justification on to the shoplifter or by insinuating that retail stores are evil corporations and therefore deserve no sympathy. Let me try to convince you without defending the morality of the shoplifter or declaring corporations evil. 1. On the totem pole of crimes, petty shoplifting (without violence) is pr…

It’s morally wrong to steal, and has been since the beginning of civilization.

“Though shalt not steal” - Ten Commandments

“If a man has stolen goods from a temple, or house, he shall be put to death; and he that has received the stolen property from him shall be put to death.” - Code of Hammurabi

Private property is the foundation of civilization and pretending theft doesn’t matter undermines the basis of our world. All theft is wrong.

Re: Why it’s hard to buy deodorant in Manhattan

#540

Post by Ekaros »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #89
jakelazaroff wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s one perspective. Another is that the truly greedy thing is to construct a society such that some people can’t afford basic necessities, and that inflicts far more suffering than people stealing what they need to live.

You're constructing a strawman fantasy word where by people only do anti-social things because they need to live, thereby painting them as heoric, Robin Hood type figures. Here on planet earth however, some people are just anti-social and understand nothing except force. No amount of education or counselling or whatever else will change that.

I actually believe they choose the easiest path. Stealing is sometimes that. Now if they could get reasonably paid work or other sources of income they probably would not do that much of it.
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