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Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

strongtowns.org

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Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#531

Post by vineyardmike »

throwaway6734 wrote: post #455
porknubbins wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes the author seems to state that there are many more traffic deaths than commercial transport deaths as if the point is self evident but I do not see it. From my perspective its a minor miracle that there aren't more traffic deaths. We let any private individual drive up to a 20,000 something pound vehicle with pretty minimal licensing requirements (in most places in the US). The news story is that it mostly goes o…

my personal theory is that people's overconfidence in their ability as drivers and underestimating the risk of driving ends up making the process much safer than if people were more grounded in reality

Or everyone’s overconfidence and underestimation means there’s no appetite for people to accept regulation and change. because I’m not the problem and I’m in control, I shouldn’t expect change. Meanwhile when you fly, you know you’re at the hands of someone else, and you want to control them as much as possible.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#532

Post by pclmulqdq »

colpabar wrote: post #359
jvm___ wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which baffles the rest of the world as we see the aggregate number and are dumbfounded that nothing is done.

As an extremely cynical american, my view is that we don't do anything because guns are a big industry in america, and industry controls our government in all the places that matter. But my point was more that we only ever talk about gun violence when a very specific type of gun violence occurs, and pointing out the incidents that constitute the bulk of the aggregate number usually gets you called a racist.

Which bulk of the aggregate number? The number 1 cause of gun deaths in the US is suicides.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#533

Post by yreg »

whimsicalism wrote: post #368
AlwaysRock wrote: post #315

Never owned a car of my own until two years ago. Our car has been hit three times in the last two years. Once totaled on the high way (another drivers fault) and twice while parked. Roughly 50K in damages across the two cars and 3 months in the shop doing repairs. We spent 20K on a new car after the old one was totaled and insurance paid out a fraction of what a similar car would cost. We've paid close to 2K in deduc…

Where do you live? West coast or South?

Is there no mandatory insurance to cover damages to others in the US?

In my country if I want to drive a car it has to have this insurance so if I crash into someone all of the damage I do to them is covered.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#534

Post by PebblesRox »

pdonis wrote: post #273
flaque wrote: post #96

There’s an audio version of the same point here: https://podcast.strongtowns.org/e/the-drip-drip-drip-of-traf... A ”best effort” summary of this article: if thousands of people die in once place, it’s one of the great tragedies in American history. However if thousands of people die in thousands different places, it is ignored and considered a fact of life. When a plane or train crashes, we stop everything and redesi…

> A ”best effort” summary of this article: if thousands of people die in once place, it’s one of the great tragedies in American history. However if thousands of people die in thousands different places, it is ignored and considered a fact of life. My summary is different: if thousands of people die because the government specifically puts them in harm's way but doesn't give them the best available protection against…

A problem with your insurance incentive is that it only works for people who have insurance. It does nothing to deter uninsured drivers.

The risk of dying in a car accident isn’t enough to stop some people from driving recklessly. Why would a penalty that only applies to the rare occasion when someone causes harm be any better of an incentive for people who seem to already assume they’re not going to cause harm by their behavior?

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#535

Post by s1artibartfast »

buran77 wrote: post #487
naasking wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A ”best effort” summary of this article: if thousands of people die in once place, it’s one of the great tragedies in American history. However if thousands of people die in thousands different places, it is ignored and considered a fact of life. But that makes sense statistically, because those are thousands of ostensibly independent events that don't necessarily have a single common cause, where the massacre of a…

> So of course the natural reaction is to shrug in the former case, because there's no obvious connection between them I don't think a common cause is what makes the difference, and you see it with lung cancer due to smoking. The shock factor of plane crashes is brought on by them being so rare, killing a lot of people at once, and almost guaranteeing those fatalities. This makes them shocking and unforgettable, they…

Similarly, probably the most dangerous thing most people do in their lives is eat (or overeat). It is far more dangerous than smoking or driving or flying.

However, overeating (and the consequences) are extremely common and utterly unshocking.

People engage in the risky behavior 3 or more times a day, and have normalized the deaths they see resulting from it.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#536

Post by Akronymus »

googlryas wrote: post #137
flaque wrote: post #96

There’s an audio version of the same point here: https://podcast.strongtowns.org/e/the-drip-drip-drip-of-traf... A ”best effort” summary of this article: if thousands of people die in once place, it’s one of the great tragedies in American history. However if thousands of people die in thousands different places, it is ignored and considered a fact of life. When a plane or train crashes, we stop everything and redesi…

It makes sense because, for most of America, we have designed our environment to be heavily dependent on the possibilities cars open up for us. It is not the same with air or train travel. Those are useful, but not necessary for almost all people.

> It makes sense because, for most of America, we have designed our environment to be heavily dependent on the possibilities cars open up for us.

I disagree on "possibilities cars open up".

If it is optional to use a car basically everywhere, then sure, those are freedom. In the majority of the US you are locked to HAVING to have a car.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#537

Post by nradov »

alex_young wrote: post #468
staticautomatic wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally those things are helpful but I think China has pretty well demonstrated that there’s no alternative universe where fully locking everything down eliminates Covid.

China represents 18% of the world's population, yet 0.07% of COVID-19 fatalities. Seems like there is some value in their approach.

There is no value in the Chinese approach. Protecting people from infectious disease can't possibly justify violating fundamental human rights, such as the right to free assembly?

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#538

Post by rustybelt »

clairity wrote: post #506
rustybelt wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A quick google is telling me that 26.8% of drivers who were killed or severely injured had alcohol in their bloodstream. Assuming that's true, then wouldn't never drinking and driving reduce your risk of death or serious injury by around 26.8%? That seems like a substantial reduction that is completely in the control of the driver.

no, you have to get everyone else to stop drinking and driving, not just yourself, to get that sort of reduction.

How? The 26.8% is just drivers with alcohol in their system. If I never drink and drive, I will never be part of that group. That means the raw rate of traffic fatality or severe injury is 26.8% lower for people like me (non drunk drivers.)

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#540

Post by Schroedingersat »

umvi wrote: post #185

I think there's another reason too we "ignore" car crashes: loose coupling with politics. Say a DUI driver kills a random family of 5. Is that going to make national headlines? Probably not. Very little to be gained politically. It doesn't really enrage us because we love and celebrate alcohol too much to be capable of villainizing it like guns. So as a result, it doesn't spread very far on social media. Now say a ra…

This is just reframing the point of the article. Diffuse harms are ignored unless they're useful for pushing an agenda.
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