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Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

strongtowns.org

481–490 of 1001 posts

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally those things are helpful but I think China has pretty well demonstrated that there’s no alternative universe where fully locking everything down eliminates Covid.

China represents 18% of the world's population, yet 0.07% of COVID-19 fatalities. Seems like there is some value in their approach.

Like pretending there are no covid deaths?

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#482
post #96

There’s an audio version of the same point here: https://podcast.strongtowns.org/e/the-drip-drip-drip-of-traf... A ”best effort” summary of this article: if thousands of people die in once place, it’s one of the great tragedies in American history. However if thousands of people die in thousands different places, it is ignored and considered a fact of life. When a plane or train crashes, we stop everything and redesi…

In addition, the extra expense associated with regulation to make planes ultra-safe makes it unaffordable for some people. Those people then go on to use a vastly less safe form of transportation.

This is confusing. You seem to be suggesting that we should let the kind of barely-competent people who typically operate & maintain automobiles with a minimum of attention also operate aircraft systems with a similarly casual approach in order to make it more affordable?

The nature of aviation, where unplanned problems result in unplanned non-optional landings in random locations (instead of just pulling off the side of the road), would rapidly turn aviation into the most dangerous transport mode. Aviation would soon become unsustainable, and available to no one.

How does making it less safe help anything? (note that I'm not discussing the FAA's massive inefficiencies, many of which I'm sure could be improved without compromising safety)

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#483
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally it's required, but I think their point is it should be required by hardware. Right now most new cars just beep at you, but you can still operate them.

We never pushed for it politically because it wouldn't change anything but it would piss people off. You can simply buckle the seatbelt with nobody in the seat, then sit down, and the requirement is defeated. On the other hand, a mandatory breathalyzer for ignition would be useful to prevent a lone driver from driving drunk. We already have them for people with DUIs, so we should make them mandatory for all cars.

> On the other hand, a mandatory breathalyzer for ignition would be useful to prevent a lone driver from driving drunk.

That would do nothing accept waste countless man hours of productivity, consume a great deal of money, and ensure that the next generation of politicians would be Libertarians.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#484
My theory of why we ignore car crashes as a source of deaths boils down to a basic reality of American politics: old people vote.

I'm a volunteer firefighter in a rural town in the Northeast. We handle a fairly large area and go to about 80 motor vehicle accident calls a year, of which about 20-25 require patient extrication and about 5-8 involve one or more fatalities.

More of these MVAs involve a non-intoxicated elderly person who made a driving error than involve an intoxicated driver (that's including people who nod off on heroin, not just drunks).

If we had a clear-eyed view of risk mitigation, we'd make people over, say, 75 take a comprehensive vision and neuromotor exam to keep their drivers licenses current but we don't, because old people vote.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#485
post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. We don’t fear things under our control. Do I fear driving my car? No, because I can control my safety (to an extent, anyway). I can drive defensively. I can stay focused. I can avoid dangerous intersections. I wear a seat belt and have a big safe SUV. Mass shootings are terrifying because there’s no sense of control. Animals are scary (spiders, snakes) because we can’t control them. Disease is scary when we can’…

> Mass shootings are terrifying because there’s no sense of control. For anyone here concerned about this, it doesn’t take very much money in HN-terms to become reasonably well trained. You can: 1) Carry your own weapon, following your state’s laws in all but a few. 2) Learn to use that weapon very well, but more importantly: 3) Learn to use cover and move defensively or offensively 4) Learn to administer basic medic…

no, if you want to survive a mass shooting, you don’t need to do anything, especially not buy a gun, and your likelihood of not dying by mass shooting stays the same, basically zero. your chances of dying by gun increase much more simply by having one than you could ever hope to reduce the risk of dying by mass shooting by having one. if you were in the exceedingly unlikely scenario of a mass shooting, brandishing a gun increases your likelihood of dying in that situation several-fold, rather than materially increasing your chances of stopping the mass shooter or even saving your own life.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#486

My kid sister died in a car accident two weeks ago. Now I find the numbers unfathomable. How can 40,000 families be suffering like this, every year?

Because even 40,000 people is only a lot relatively. It is just 0.012% of the American population and 0.00051% of the world population.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but ... dude... have some sympathy.

To OP: Sorry for your loss. I can't imagine what it's like.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#487
post #96

There’s an audio version of the same point here: https://podcast.strongtowns.org/e/the-drip-drip-drip-of-traf... A ”best effort” summary of this article: if thousands of people die in once place, it’s one of the great tragedies in American history. However if thousands of people die in thousands different places, it is ignored and considered a fact of life. When a plane or train crashes, we stop everything and redesi…

> A ”best effort” summary of this article: if thousands of people die in once place, it’s one of the great tragedies in American history. However if thousands of people die in thousands different places, it is ignored and considered a fact of life. But that makes sense statistically, because those are thousands of ostensibly independent events that don't necessarily have a single common cause, where the massacre of a…

> So of course the natural reaction is to shrug in the former case, because there's no obvious connection between them

I don't think a common cause is what makes the difference, and you see it with lung cancer due to smoking.

The shock factor of plane crashes is brought on by them being so rare, killing a lot of people at once, and almost guaranteeing those fatalities. This makes them shocking and unforgettable, they get a reputation.

On the other hand most people have been in a car crash of some sort (a fender bender) and not only survived but walked away without a scratch. Plus the stream of news about individual crashes just desensitizes people even further.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you arguing that drivers don't have any control over their level of risk on the road? Sure they can't eliminate 100% of risk, but not speeding and not driving drunk absolutely influences a driver's likelihood of being in an accident.

no, speeding hardly changes risk at all, but reckless driving certainly can, but that’s beside the point. the point is that changing your own behavior (i.e., “control”) has a negligible marginal effect on reducing your overall risk. nearly all of the practical risk is external and therefore out of your control (unless you manufacture additional risk by being distracted, reckless, and/or impaired). you can’t really lo…

A quick google is telling me that 26.8% of drivers who were killed or severely injured had alcohol in their bloodstream. Assuming that's true, then wouldn't never drinking and driving reduce your risk of death or serious injury by around 26.8%? That seems like a substantial reduction that is completely in the control of the driver.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#489
post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars should have a regulator installed by the manufacturer to limit speed to 20mph on roads with people, and to 60mph on grade separated highways. This maximum would barely change your time to destination, but it would save thousands of lives per year. - 20mph: 90% survival rate - 30mph: 60% survival rate - 40mph: 20% survival rate https://www.betterstreetschicago.org/blog/chicago-speed-came...

Staying home on the couch: 100% survival rate

Until someone drives into your house

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#490
post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. We don’t fear things under our control. Do I fear driving my car? No, because I can control my safety (to an extent, anyway). I can drive defensively. I can stay focused. I can avoid dangerous intersections. I wear a seat belt and have a big safe SUV. Mass shootings are terrifying because there’s no sense of control. Animals are scary (spiders, snakes) because we can’t control them. Disease is scary when we can’…

> Mass shootings are terrifying because there’s no sense of control. For anyone here concerned about this, it doesn’t take very much money in HN-terms to become reasonably well trained. You can: 1) Carry your own weapon, following your state’s laws in all but a few. 2) Learn to use that weapon very well, but more importantly: 3) Learn to use cover and move defensively or offensively 4) Learn to administer basic medic…

And if the rhetoric is true and stolen guns are disproportionately represented in violent crimes 6) learn to secure your gun when it is not in use so it doesn't get (easily) stolen, FFS.
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