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Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

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Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#531

Post by zaptrem »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #422
VikingCoder wrote: post #392

If someone adds http://blah.us "> to their website, and that image is hosted in the United States, how does that not also violate French data protection? The user's browser makes a request to a US server, including the user's IP address. I legit do not understand how to make French people happy with these laws.

It probably does violate French data protection. There were similar lawsuits in Germany over the use of Google Fonts. Making a users browser interact with a US-based or US-owned service is currently very thin ice.

All they need now is some sort of ISP level filter to make sure nobody loses their privacy to US servers. They could call it a "Great Firewall" maybe.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#532

Post by estaseuropano »

mediascreen wrote: post #412

I think we (in the EU) will soon realise the bizarre consequences of these regulations. European startups will not be able to use standard SaaS or PaaS tools (like AWS, Azure, Mailchimp, PayPal etc) if they are based in the US (like most of them are). No cloud services, no Office 365 or Google Workspace. It will take forever to build up a similar ecosystem in Europe and I think most successful European entrepreneurs…

You can use all these, but you cannot send your own visitors' data to M365.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#533

Post by rdiddly »

croes wrote: post #503
someotherperson wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and when you go shopping and pay with cash in a store with no surveillance, your shopping habits are being shared against your wishes with a random third party (the external company bookkeeper). It's disingenuous to have problems with websites collecting entirely anonymous browsing data -- that goes beyond any arguments for privacy and just steers into "yelling at clouds" territory.

Nope, the external company bookkeeper doesn't know which of the hundreds or thousands transactions are done by me. He doesn't even know how often I bought something. And even if, that knowledge is nothing compared to the millions of data points of services like google analytics.

If it were true as AdriaanvRossum said above that Simple Analytics data has "no identifiers" (taking that at face value for now) then that seems exactly analogous to those cash transactions someotherperson describes.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#534

Post by wongarsu »

mediascreen wrote: post #412

I think we (in the EU) will soon realise the bizarre consequences of these regulations. European startups will not be able to use standard SaaS or PaaS tools (like AWS, Azure, Mailchimp, PayPal etc) if they are based in the US (like most of them are). No cloud services, no Office 365 or Google Workspace. It will take forever to build up a similar ecosystem in Europe and I think most successful European entrepreneurs…

> like AWS, Azure, Mailchimp, PayPal etc [...] No cloud services, no Office 365 or Google Workspace.

Maybe an unpopular opinion, but imho AWS, GCP and Azure are popular with startups because of their generous free credits, not because they are good tools for startups. As a startup you are typically better served by a DigitalOcean-level of complexity, and there are plenty of such offers in the EU (Hetzner Cloud, Gridscale, OVH, etc)

For Mailchimp you have plenty of competition, some of it in the EU (SendInBlue and Mailjet come to mind).

For payment processing there are also plenty of offers, Adyen is probably the biggest European alternative but there are countless smaller ones.

Microsoft Office 365 can be replaced by (shocker) Microsoft Office (the offline version). But most of your documents probably don't even contain PII and would be fine in Office 365 or Google Workplace. The exception is obviously email, but the market is flooded with E-Mail services from any country you like (and your preferred Hoster probably offers an email package too).

So I'm not really sure what part of the ecosystem we are missing here? European companies often have the smaller advertising budget and mindshare, but it isn't like they don't exist.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#535

Post by Mountain_Skies »

mediascreen wrote: post #509
brahadeesh wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. If this make European startups build their own ecosystem and provides me with an alternative for the services I use but don't track me, I'm going to switch - simple as. I see this as a win for the internet.

Why limit it to the EU? Shouldn't every country have their own AWS, Azure and Google Cloud? I think we underestimate just how difficult it is just to replicate existing services, let alone keep up with the innovation. It's like the Argentinian effort to stimulate its own computer manufacturing by banning Apple products.

It'd help if the United States wasn't allowed to aggressively brain drain most of the rest of the world.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#536

Post by estaseuropano »

mediascreen wrote: post #496
ballenf wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we fragment and destroy the entire Internet I would call fragmenting these things rebuilding the internet. Not sure how consolidating everyone on a few Mailchimp type services is in anyone's interest.

I already get a lot of "We are sorry, but for legal reasons we are prevented from providing this service where you live" when I'm accessing American websites. Recent European judgements seems to make it illegal to embed content from YouTube or Vimeo for example. I don't see how dividing services up by region will help me anyway. I'd rather be able to choose from a few (I imagine there are more than a few at the momen…

Its not illegal, but it requires consent. Plenty of solutions to offer a video without loading third party code until the user clicks it.

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#537

Post by mekkkkkk »

iofiiiiiiiii wrote: post #504
mediascreen wrote: post #412

I think we (in the EU) will soon realise the bizarre consequences of these regulations. European startups will not be able to use standard SaaS or PaaS tools (like AWS, Azure, Mailchimp, PayPal etc) if they are based in the US (like most of them are). No cloud services, no Office 365 or Google Workspace. It will take forever to build up a similar ecosystem in Europe and I think most successful European entrepreneurs…

Microsoft will be storing EU users' data in the EU: https://blogs.microsoft.com/eupolicy/2021/05/06/eu-data-boun... Will this enable them to comply with the requirements?

Microsoft has done the leg work for this already. They currently have a completely contained Azure environment in Germany. I think it was deployed to ensure compliance with german/EU health data protocols.

I have first hand experience of this, migrating between their global PaaS and the contained German one. The bulkheads are quite air-tight (much to my personal detriment).

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#538

Post by acka »

rewq4321 wrote: post #360
gspencley wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're within your rights to create and offer whatever kind of service you want. As an end-user, however, any data what-so-ever sent to a 3rd party without my knowledge or consent is too much. There is no such thing as "the right amount." I'm OK with websites using self-hosted tools such as Matomo as long as the data never leaves their servers. Analytics is important to any business. But I choose to do business with…

This seems very impractical given the way the internet currently works. Most startups use dozens of SaaS products, let alone more basic/foundational things like global CDNs. You're being logged at every step of the process if only to prevent spam/DDoS/etc. What you're asking for would require a fundamental restructuring of the internet, and of software business models, and a lot of other stuff. I can't see that happe…

When I visit a website of some business, I provide them with an IP address for use during the session (because of the way TCP/IP works). I'm okay with said site using some kind of load-balancer, DDoS protection or what not, as long as the business takes full responsibility to keep my personal information private unless I specifically indicate otherwise (opt-in[1]), for example using a form on the landing page. I believe that this is the true intent of the GDPR in this matter.

[1]: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/internet-tel...

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#539

Post by mediascreen »

nerbert wrote: post #450
mediascreen wrote: post #412

I think we (in the EU) will soon realise the bizarre consequences of these regulations. European startups will not be able to use standard SaaS or PaaS tools (like AWS, Azure, Mailchimp, PayPal etc) if they are based in the US (like most of them are). No cloud services, no Office 365 or Google Workspace. It will take forever to build up a similar ecosystem in Europe and I think most successful European entrepreneurs…

These tools have EU versions of their services with servers in Ireland or other places so that the data does not leave the territory. There will be absolutely no consequence to these regulations.

The server locations does not seem to matter as long as American government agencies are able to make the company provide the information.

But, companies like AWS claim that they voluntarily bind them selves to to provide much stricter privacy safeguards than the US law requires[0].

[0] https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/security/aws-and-eu-data-transf...

Re: Use of Google Analytics declared illegal by French data protection authority

#540

Post by estaseuropano »

kergonath wrote: post #515
waffleiron wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think we (in the EU) will soon realise the bizarre consequences of these regulations. Could this not also be said about US regulations such as CLOUD act, Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and Executive Order 12333. I don't think it's accurate to solely blame the EU when this is in response to legislation that gives/gave the US access to all types of personal data on European citizens.

> I don't think it's accurate to solely blame the EU when this is in response to legislation that gives/gave the US access to all types of personal data on European citizens. I would argue that the Americans getting better privacy protections and working with other countries instead of forcing American companies to behave illegally abroad would be a much better solution than the Europeans watering down their privacy…

The recent German judgment was also about subsidiaries. If 'Meta Europe ' falls under the cloud act it isn't GDPR compliant.
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