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Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

edmontonjournal.com

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Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#531

Post by blub »

devwastaken wrote: post #526
LaunchAway1 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting point to make and defendable but these declarations mentioned in another comment, I will assume to be true, coming from Trudeau, Canada's president: “They don’t believe in science/progress and are very often misogynistic and racist....This leads us, as a leader and as a country, to make a choice: Do we tolerate these people?" I have taken both shots, and will take the third but these declaration…

Can confirm Trudeau is right. Most of these vocal anti vaxxers are what he claims. It goes with the territory. Those that want to believe everyone else is wrong and they are the sole correct individual also fall into the tropes of superiority complexes's of various ism's. Having good reason to not be vaccinated isn't anti-vax. For example, active blood clotting. Anti vax is where an individual believes, with no knowl…

That's very heavy framing in order to make something quite banal - rejecting a medical treatment as is their right - into an evil action. Like it or not, this is what it means to be a liberal democracy.

"These people" haven't killed anyone and there is no court of law that would condemn them. The economic costs are to blame on a bumbling government that failed to prepare for pandemic scenarios and doesn't have any ideas on how to deal with the virus except through vaccines. Unfortunately for them, Omicron's not too fazed about said vaccines, making the whole exercise more and more absurd.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#532

Post by MikusR »

huntertwo wrote: post #391

Is there room for those of us who believe the mRNA vaccines are effective at reducing transmission and severe disease yet don’t want to relegate our fellow citizens to second class status for not wanting to inject themselves with something they’re not sure about? We seem all too ready to ruin the lives of those who don’t want the jab.

I am not sure about taxes.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#533

Post by blub »

throw0101a wrote: post #333
criticaltinker wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and this type of doublespeak is coming from the top down in many countries. It’s alarming because “they don’t believe in science” has become a divisive weapon that hand waves away all scientific nuance. The vast majority of young healthy people are completely asymptomatic, they don’t need a vaccine, nor would it be a wise investment of limited doses. Also, previous infection confers protection that is at least as…

> The vast majority of young healthy people are completely asymptomatic, they don’t need a vaccine, nor would it be a wise investment of limited doses. Of course they need a vaccine. Just because you don't have symptoms does not mean (a) that you're not carrying it, and (b) can't infect someone who may not be as healthy as you. Further it's difficult to predict ahead of time how an individual will react to being infe…

Your comment made sense with the original strains, but already with Delta there were many breakthrough infections and with Omicron two shots don't offer any significant protection against infection and transmission.

So that leaves the personal risk, where I think people should be able to decide by themselves if they want a vaccine or not. It's also fair that they don't get an ICU spot, but instead get whatever other treatment is available. However, most governments seem to shy away from this decision and instead bet everything on vaccination with predictable results.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#534

Post by blub »

atoav wrote: post #512
charlieyu1 wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doubting a vaccine that is developed in a few months instead of years like how it was done in the past, is already reasonable doubt

You know how 64x1.2 GHz multicore CPUs can be faster than one single 1.2 GHz CPU? The same principle works in medicine. Instead of one institute doing 10 trials over 5 years you can also have 10 institutes doing 10 trials in a year (Note: these are not actual numbers, just a show of peinciple). The trials for the corona vaccines have not been done at a worse quality, as far as I can tell the opposite is actually the…

While it's very unlikely, we simply don't know if some unknown side-effect will pop up in 10 years and the only way to find out is to wait 10 years and verify empirically.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#535

Post by blub »

Daishiman wrote: post #510
tzekid wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In science everything is up for discussion. Anything else and it's not science anymore, but ideology.

False. Things are up for discussion when facts on the ground change and when new evidence arises that makes for a case that paradigms should be reconsidered. Every piece of available evidence points to the same conclusions, over and over again: the general safety of vaccines, the risks of long COVID, the contagiousness of the Omicron variant, and so on and so forth. Those things are clearly not up for the discussion…

Facts on the ground are continuously changing and have been for the duration of the pandemic: e.g. risk of myocarditis for young males. Medical bodies are reacting to these changes, in that case by recommending against Moderna for people younger than 30.

Another example is the recommendation for AstraZeneca which was first not offered to older people because of unclear efficiency data, and then not offered to younger people because of the risk of blood clots.

Yet another example is the recommendation for boosters against Omicron. Israel's backing off from recommending a fourth to the general population because among other things the faster loss of protection.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#536

Post by Radim »

random314 wrote: post #528
Radim wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By "way over the top" I meant that your analogy was excessive and distracting. Nope, it wasn't. See my sibling response to random314 . Just because others cried wolf before, doesn't mean you shouldn't cry wolf when you see one. Indeed you must, given the parent post (detached now, context lost). I didn't draw that analogy out of nowhere – it's apt, and driven by both hard data and curiosity. Choosing to ignore your…

Quoted post unavailable.

No post body was provided.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#537

Post by razius »

inglor_cz wrote: post #429
Radim wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty short-sighted, too. I was born and lived under one rule of tyranny (communist Czechoslovakia), and the legal & judicial professions suffered tremendously there. In fact, they were among the first to go, replaced by something truly heinous. Like, what do these judges and lawyers who keep silent expect will happen, once basic civil liberties & human rights are disbanded? (no matter whether disbanded directl…

Indeed, and one of the legacies of the Czechoslovak Socialist Republic is lingering distrust towards authorities even 30 years after the regime collapsed. Past injustices cast long shadows.

No post body was provided.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#538

Post by guilhas »

Daishiman wrote: post #441
guilhas wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong, a year ago all countries vaccination target was lower Initially started with the medicine standard herd immunity of 65%, which includes vaccinated and recovered And now even 90% vaccinated is supposedly unacceptable https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56722186

Because the disease has changed. Are you ignorant of that?

Yes it changed to be less deadly, making vaccines, "reduction of severe disease", less necessary?

So will they revise and lower the vaccination targets?

Omicron up to 70% less likely to need hospital care https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59769969

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#539

Post by shoulderfake »

devwastaken wrote: post #526
LaunchAway1 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting point to make and defendable but these declarations mentioned in another comment, I will assume to be true, coming from Trudeau, Canada's president: “They don’t believe in science/progress and are very often misogynistic and racist....This leads us, as a leader and as a country, to make a choice: Do we tolerate these people?" I have taken both shots, and will take the third but these declaration…

Can confirm Trudeau is right. Most of these vocal anti vaxxers are what he claims. It goes with the territory. Those that want to believe everyone else is wrong and they are the sole correct individual also fall into the tropes of superiority complexes's of various ism's. Having good reason to not be vaccinated isn't anti-vax. For example, active blood clotting. Anti vax is where an individual believes, with no knowl…

What an idiot...

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#540

Post by guilhas »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #462
lordloki wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The disease has changed to reduce the effectiveness of the vaccines to the point where they don't show any significant ability to stop the spread. The current vaccines may help the individual against Omicron but does nothing to help the collective. Are you ignorant of that?

Right, the solution is to improve and update the vaccines.

And in the meantime not force anyone, since the vaccine is experimental, and the efficacy lower than previously thought
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