Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016 • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#531

Post by etherael » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 6:40 AM UTC

klebe wrote: post #473

the top comments talking about maps, it's absolutely insane 'The agreement included a pledge from Apple to help Chinese manufacturers develop "the most advanced manufacturing technologies," "support the training of high-quality Chinese talents," use more components from Chinese suppliers, sign deals with Chinese software firms, collaborate with research in Chinese universities, and directly invest in Chinese tech com…

> As if the streets are paved with gold everywhere else?

They kind of are, though. Find somebody that is broadly world traveled over a multiple decade period and they will invariably have noticed the stark contrast in the way societies are inside and outside what could be broadly termed the modern western countries.

People that have been stuck in those countries their entire lives simply don't understand how badly they have been robbed.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#532

Post by blackoil » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 6:41 AM UTC

frozenport wrote: post #20

bell-cot wrote: post #4

So...local politicians, in a market where Apple was making money hand-over-fist, were feeling kinda used. By a huge foreign corporation. And the they started getting sticky on all sorts of regulatory things that Apple needed. Until Apple's CEO promised to do a bunch of "local investing" in their country. How different is this from the 1980's in the U.S., when Japanese auto makers decided that they needed to start bui…

1. was done in secret 2. traded seemingly unrelated investments aka you can build your computers if you invest in our SAAS 3. technology transfer may be a violation of us export controls Its really not obvious if the Chinese win because it's an extremely opaque way to choose winners and losers.

what was secret from whom? and why should they have been told?

*may be* a violation. or maybe not in violation.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#533

Post by pjmlp » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 6:41 AM UTC

throwawayboise wrote: post #450

bell-cot wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a fair number of Americans who are over 50 years old, and appear fairly intelligent - but who, a while after each election, seem actually surprised and offended that the recently-elected politicians are not energetically living up to their campaign promises of squeaky-clean ethics, plentiful jobs, open & responsible government, etc. Do corporations have so much better a record of living up to feel-good marketi…

WHAT?? I'm over 50, and after 30+ years of voting and paying attention, have realized that politicians are by and large the lowest, sleaziest, most power-hungry and amoral creatures that can still perhaps be called human. I don't believe a word they say, and think that legislatures should be in session 90 days a year to figure things out and generally get their shit done, and the rest of the time they should have to…

And guess what they do when the job ends, turn into CEOs.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#534

Post by neartheplain » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 6:42 AM UTC

shrimpx wrote: post #494

klebe wrote: post #473

the top comments talking about maps, it's absolutely insane 'The agreement included a pledge from Apple to help Chinese manufacturers develop "the most advanced manufacturing technologies," "support the training of high-quality Chinese talents," use more components from Chinese suppliers, sign deals with Chinese software firms, collaborate with research in Chinese universities, and directly invest in Chinese tech com…

The empathetic perspective is that these CEOs and boards don’t have national allegiance. They are trying to optimize globally, and China is more exploitable in the sense of getting a steeper growth curve out of it.

The realpolitik perspective is that some countries demand allegiance from companies that operate on their soil (China), while others don't (USA). So Apple has a national allegiance to China in that country, and an allegiance purely to profit in the USA. It's easy to guess which country's citizens will receive more corporate philanthropy. See GP comment for the answer.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#535

Post by kccqzy » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 6:43 AM UTC

willhinsa wrote: post #380

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cynic would wonder if China allows iMessage to be encrypted because they can break it. A real cynic would wonder if China allows iMessage because Apple deliberately made it so that China could break it.

If iMessage isn't revealed in the future to be accessible by the CCP, I'll eat my hat. It's not even protected for users in the USA [0]. Do people really think the CCP would allow encrypted messaging it can't access? If so, I've got a bridge to sell you. [0] https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what...

That's for iCloud backups of iMessage content, not iMessage itself.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#536

Post by pjmlp » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 6:43 AM UTC

wolverine876 wrote: post #150

qeternity wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally get that people want companies to act with dignity, but the idea that a company, even one as large as Apple, is going to make any sort of difference with respect to China's oddities is wishful thinking. Apple has a business to run. They abide by all sorts of requests in various countries in which they operate. Of course there has to be a line somewhere, I'm just not sure this is it.

It seems fashionable to preach helplessness. Apple can't change China by themselves, but they are not by themselves. If we all follow that reasoning, then nothing ever happens. To surrender and retreat from the field of battle is a sure way to lose. Despair is a leading psyops tactic - targeted at enemies; let's not help them. It would be interesting to talk about what organizations like Apple can and cannot do; what…

Well, everyone could start by avoid buying "made-in-china" as much as possible, yet I see exactly the opposite.

Lots of moral on the Internet, but then when it touches getting the next gadget, or saving some bucks...

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#537

Post by kart23 » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 6:44 AM UTC

klebe wrote: post #473

the top comments talking about maps, it's absolutely insane 'The agreement included a pledge from Apple to help Chinese manufacturers develop "the most advanced manufacturing technologies," "support the training of high-quality Chinese talents," use more components from Chinese suppliers, sign deals with Chinese software firms, collaborate with research in Chinese universities, and directly invest in Chinese tech com…

>as well as assistance with around a dozen Chinese government causes.

Does anyone have specific info on these? Chinese government causes could be anything, ranging from benign to the truly despicable.

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#538

Post by pmontra » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 6:45 AM UTC

grupthink wrote: post #529

zepto wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn’t. That was about standing up to IBM.

Now we need an ad about standing up to Apple.

Already done https://youtu.be/euiSHuaw6Q4

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#539

Post by pjmlp » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 6:45 AM UTC

kelnos wrote: post #102

qeternity wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally get that people want companies to act with dignity, but the idea that a company, even one as large as Apple, is going to make any sort of difference with respect to China's oddities is wishful thinking. Apple has a business to run. They abide by all sorts of requests in various countries in which they operate. Of course there has to be a line somewhere, I'm just not sure this is it.

I know this would never happen, but I wish companies would just default to not doing business in China, unless they are able to sell their product, uncompromised. I wouldn't mind legislation to that effect, though I'm sure that would come with a ton of unintended consequences. If China (and similar repressive regimes) wants these sorts of products with onerous restrictions built in, they should have to build them the…

I know this would never happen, but I wish people would just default to not buying products made in China....

Re: Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with China in 2016

#540

Post by pjmlp » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 6:47 AM UTC

burntoutfire wrote: post #155

qeternity wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally get that people want companies to act with dignity, but the idea that a company, even one as large as Apple, is going to make any sort of difference with respect to China's oddities is wishful thinking. Apple has a business to run. They abide by all sorts of requests in various countries in which they operate. Of course there has to be a line somewhere, I'm just not sure this is it.

> Apple has a business to run. "Apple" is not some abstract entity. There are people behind Apple (the shareholders, the managers, the employees). Real people, with real morals and values. I don't think that the only thing all of them care about is "running a business" and that all of them feel it absolves them from acting humanly. It's more complicated than that. (having said that, of course, greed is always strong)…

Like the same people that buy products knownligy that they were produced in China, and when given the option will always go for the cheaper version instead of the moral one?