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Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

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Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#531

Post by hnbad »

marcodiego wrote: post #71

The photo https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-StC-dVAdOns/YK081DEgPdI/AAAAAAAAd... is probably a captured M16 since, AFAIK, Vietnam used AK-47. What impressed me the most: "Using home-brewed chemicals, they developed their pictures in the open air or in underground tunnels" if by chemicals to develop photos in open air means no need for a dark room, that is really not something easy to do with then available technology. It is…

> How the US avoided international courts is something that should be better explained

The fact the US has made it clear they will use any force necessary against the ICJ if they ever dare trying a US citizen should be a good explanation. You can get away with war crimes just fine if nobody dares to charge you with them.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#532

Post by roenxi »

pyrale wrote: post #488
roenxi wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a gradient of right and wrong. Most (realistically all) successful countries are on the wrong side of it. I mean, look at the path the Europeans took to get to the modern era. Short periods of it, like the last 2000 years, have involved questionable acts.

I believe the point is that we have to acknowledge this rather than sugar-coat US history.

US history is extensively documented. Nobody is claiming that there aren't long lists of terrible things done (and still doing, I might add). The factual nature of those claims isn't really open to challenge. It is often pointed out in real time as the decisions are made.

If 'acknowledge' literally means acknowledge then I doubt you'll struggle getting what you want. If 'acknowledge' means 'and then we have to follow my political recipe for what to do next' then it might be a struggle.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#533

Post by sandworm101 »

camillomiller wrote: post #530

These pictures are stunning. Each one of them is so powerful. We've really only been shown our side of history. Le Minh Truong is an astounding photographer, and one that should be as celebrate as Robert Capa, or many other Western photoreporters. Impressive. The picture with the two women and the fishnet is one of the most beautifully composed pictures I've ever seen, period. And I've seen a lot. Insane that I never…

>> We've really only been shown our side of history.

Really? Maybe if one confines one's self to US TV news channels. There have been plenty of books, films, and documentary series that address the Vietnamese side of the war.

If I were to recommend one, I suggest "Vietnam Minefield" (2005), covering the Australian's improper use of a minefield that resulted in countless bombings as Viet Cong forces repurposed captured mines as IEDs.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0488904

https://donaldwilliamtate.medium.com/the-minefield-australia...

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#534

Post by marcusverus »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #515
cies wrote: post #398

The US is repeatedly on the wrong side of history. And they cannot even face that. Red scare. Supporting neo-liberal-to-fascist govts. Yelling democracy but then killing democratically chosen representatives when they do not "suit de US likings". Bitching about some "meddling" in their election when the history is full of US meddling in democratic process of other nations. Giving "foreign aid" to apartheid regimes. U…

While it is true that the US has done morally questionable and practically useless world-policing, it's not as cut and dry as you state. In both world wars, the US was undeniably a force for good, against the extremely evil Nazis, the extremely cruel Imperial Japanese, and helping more monetarily and supply wise in WW1. Furthermore, the US fought itself to free millions of slaves in it's own Civil War. While it's tru…

> Furthermore, the US fought itself to free millions of slaves in it's own Civil War.

This is simply not true.

The North prosecuted the war to preserve the Union. It was only afterward that it was re-imagined as a war of liberation. This reimagination makes perfect sense from a propaganda perspective. After all, the Confederacy was a democracy. Its people voted to leave the Union. The Yanks, for the stated purpose of "preserving the Union" invaded a democracy and killed half a million of its citizens. Ingeniously, by pretending that the war was always about freeing the slaves, the US has people walking around celebrating a one-million casualty war as a sign of their country's morality! Woof!

The truth is this: The Civil War was waged to preserve the American Empire in North America. The fact that it happened, in an unforeseeable confluence of circumstances, to result in the end of slavery, does not make it a moral war.

[0]https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Cry-Freedom-Civil-War/dp/01951...

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#535

Post by akarma »

jimmies wrote: post #19

I am a software developer in the US with a Vietnamese origin, so I am no historian and my views are probably skewed. I am among the minority Northern Vietnamese people in the US, most Vietnamese people in the Bay Area are (refugees) from the South. People can tell where one comes from with one's accent. It was undeniable that much suffering and injustice was done for Southern people, especially after the war ended. S…

Thank you for sharing. I read your blog and it was really well-said and moving. I shared it with a friend who thought it was poignant and fantastic writing. If you ever create a Substack or something of the sort, I'd certainly subscribe.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#536

Post by sandworm101 »

dncornholio wrote: post #458
pembrook wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the world is a chaotic reflexive system and trying to manipulate it always creates unintended consequences. The US absolutely does dumb stuff all the time, and power always gets abused. But for a contrarian view on the “US Bad” narrative, check out a book called The Accidental Superpower Here’s a good summary of the book: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/your-book-review-the-a... It presents an interesting…

The amount of goodwill the US had from ending WWII is sadly running out. US felt invincible after it and tried to do the right thing. But did not actually manage to replicate to what they did in WWII. Backup these results with data is not the way to go. You have to proof the same results could have not been achieved without force. Which is impossible to proof IMO

>> the US had from ending WWII is sadly running out.

Right there is half of the animosity behind the cold war. Try telling a Russian that it was the US that "ended" WWII. Remember to duck. The US bombings of Japan were bad, but worse was the threat of a Russian invasion of the home islands. Japan decided that it would rather be occupied by Americans than Russians. And it was Russian troops on the streets of Berlin. They suffered far more losses and killed more enemies. It isn't "WWII" in Russia. It's "The Great Patriotic War". Despite what Texas highschool textbooks say, the US did not end that war solo.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#537

Post by Loughla »

kyle_morris_ wrote: post #295

Anyone looking for context of what it was like as a soldier fighting for the north in the Vietnam war, I highly recommend The Sorrow of War [0]. I read it in college in a Vietnam and the US History class and it was blown away. This book, along with The Things They Carried [1] are worthwhile reads. [0] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sorrow_of_War [1] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Things_They_Carried

I was introduced to The Things They Carried in my freshman high school English class. That was a tough row to hoe as a 13-14 year old. I never understood why it was in there.

Sweetheart of the Song Tra Bong and Style were especially weird in the in-class discussions. That was 25+ years ago, and those classroom talks still stick with me. That teacher was either an unbelievable genius, or an insane person. Not sure.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#538

Post by camillomiller »

sandworm101 wrote: post #533
camillomiller wrote: post #530

These pictures are stunning. Each one of them is so powerful. We've really only been shown our side of history. Le Minh Truong is an astounding photographer, and one that should be as celebrate as Robert Capa, or many other Western photoreporters. Impressive. The picture with the two women and the fishnet is one of the most beautifully composed pictures I've ever seen, period. And I've seen a lot. Insane that I never…

>> We've really only been shown our side of history. Really? Maybe if one confines one's self to US TV news channels. There have been plenty of books, films, and documentary series that address the Vietnamese side of the war. If I were to recommend one, I suggest "Vietnam Minefield" (2005), covering the Australian's improper use of a minefield that resulted in countless bombings as Viet Cong forces repurposed capture…

I've always known that, yes. Yet, as an Italian kid of the 80s I've been raised by American and American-influenced media way more that I would like to admit. I knew the US were wrong, but there was still a disconnect between that and the depiction of the American War (as they call it in Vietnam) I took as "standard" for so long. My wake up call was 2017, during the first of a few trips to Vietnam. The War museum in Saigon is impressive. Despite having known qiute a bit about the conflict, for example, I had never heard of My Lai. Boy, that was hard to watch. I also was not aware of Cu Chi. I'm surprised I didn't get to see pictures from Le Minh Truong in Vietnam, or maybe I did, and I didn't recognize their power back then? There's also an easy language barrier, as this part of history is mostly told in languages different from the ones I speak.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#539

Post by treis »

dash2 wrote: post #416
shp0ngle wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, my relatives are South Vietnamese, Vietcong was basically mafia and when communists won, they were horrible to the South. Not saying Diem government was that good, especially in their last months their anti-buddhist paranoia made them insane; but yeah communists were bad against the buddhists too once they came into power. But yeah Agent Orange and napalm were horrible. There is no debate about that.

Sorry that this got downvoted. Large numbers of Vietnamese refugees fled Vietnam after the North's victory.[1] Arbitrary arrest and torture remains widespread in Vietnam according to Amnesty International. These were incredibly interesting and inspiring pictures and it's a shame to see the top comment hijacked by juvenile America-baaad-ism. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_boat_people

The difference between N.Korea and S.Korea is a good support for this. At the time of the Korean war maybe they weren't too different but the difference today is stark. Not difficult to imagine a similar outcome if the south had won the Vietnam war.

Re: Vietnam War images from the North Vietnamese side

#540

Post by greedo »

marcusverus wrote: post #534
Dumblydorr wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it is true that the US has done morally questionable and practically useless world-policing, it's not as cut and dry as you state. In both world wars, the US was undeniably a force for good, against the extremely evil Nazis, the extremely cruel Imperial Japanese, and helping more monetarily and supply wise in WW1. Furthermore, the US fought itself to free millions of slaves in it's own Civil War. While it's tru…

> Furthermore, the US fought itself to free millions of slaves in it's own Civil War. This is simply not true. The North prosecuted the war to preserve the Union. It was only afterward that it was re-imagined as a war of liberation. This reimagination makes perfect sense from a propaganda perspective. After all, the Confederacy was a democracy. Its people voted to leave the Union. The Yanks, for the stated purpose of…

A democracy? Not for Blacks in the South...
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