Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing • Hacker News Board

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#531

Post by asabjorn » Sat, May 22, 2021, 4:40 AM UTC

spamizbad wrote: post #218

chairmanwow1 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at place like this at Lyft and to be honest it made me pretty uncomfortable. I was aligned with most people about most of the causes circulated freely, but not all. And on the items I wasn't fully onboard with the party line, I felt there was a huge risk to my job if I ever were to voice that. I won't ever work in an environment like that again. Once I cross the threshold with my coworkers to be friends I fe…

This sounds like a problem found in fancy valley tier-1 unicorns then. I keep hearing stories of people bombarded with political discussions on a daily basis and can hardly believe them. I'm not doubting anyone's sincerity but jeez... I feel like this perhaps localized to certain segments of the industry. I've worked in this industry for over a decade and really haven't had any major political discussions with cowork…

There is a lot of money in being hired and promoted in the top unicorns, so its not surprising that when such a company allow a parallel lower-effort identity-based system of hiring and promotion some choose this path instead of more high-effort merit-based career development.

However, having parallel systems of promotion and hiring is causing resentment as well as mistrust that deteriorate organizations. What some workplaces are saying is that woke activism are negatively affecting the core mission, which is not surprising because to serve customers well a company need to build upon individual merit (not identity).

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#532

Post by hellbannedguy » Sat, May 22, 2021, 4:41 AM UTC

Kye wrote: post #466

ThinkBeat wrote: post #371

One part of the article: This is about a guy who wrote a book on his own time, published it outside of work. Someone did not like some parts of the book and the guy had to quit his job? There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. I write fictional stories in my spare time (never at work), I enjoy doing it. Some people enjoy reading them (I can't figure out why) It is a sad day for a Democracy when I…

You act like this is something new. Writers have used pseudonyms for as long as writing has existed, often to avoid this issue.

I haven't figured out why more people don't use pseudonyms in this era?

Of all times in history, this seems like the time to use a nom de plume?

I haven't figured out if it's ego preventing people from anonymity, or they think their name will eventually get out there---so why not happily sign my name to my work?

I do get it that publishing has vastly changed over the years.

It seems like the most talented writers will never get a book if they don't publish themselfs?

While the guy whom gets the most internet publicity, for any reason, gets a book deal?

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#533

Post by bryanrasmussen » Sat, May 22, 2021, 4:42 AM UTC

tshaddox wrote: post #8

eric4smith wrote: post #7

People are human. But work is work. The canonical point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. Just stop to think about it logically for a minute... is the workplace the best place to circulate a petition condemning something that has nothing to do with work? The workplace necessarily is going to bring together…

> The point of a workplace is to come together to fulfill the aims of the entrepreneurs. The personal aims of the workers are fulfilled best outside of work. What? I can’t be the only one who works directly in order to fulfill my needs (like literally my most basic needs, think food and shelter).

>What? I can’t be the only one who works directly in order to fulfill my needs

well I do, but I've noticed that employers in interviews always want to know about how interested I will be in their problems and what I find attractive about their problem space and I get the distinct feeling they don't want to hear "if you pay my target wage I will be interested in what you want for 8 hours a day"

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#534

Post by BackBlast » Sat, May 22, 2021, 4:44 AM UTC

duped wrote: post #275

BackBlast wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politics at work is still politics at work. I'm generalizing a bit here for sake of the point. There is a large amount of people advocating that other people with leanings and opinions should have their services, contracts, and professional relationships cancelled. Based on their personal politics. This cuts both ways. If companies can rightfully do that to customers, then it is also legit for them to do it to employ…

Where do you draw the line between "personal politics" and "fundamentally wrong?" In the 1950s and 1960s some people felt the line was segregation. The problem is when human decency is equated to "personal politics" (or vice versa). Some of the lines are obvious to me, but others are more blurred. At the end of the day, reasonable people can work around those fuzzy boundaries without issue.

For starters, if you can define a specific known crime being committed by a specific person. It is fundamentally wrong and you absolutely should bring it up at the right time and place.

If your accusations are about groups and the actions committed aren't specific actionable crimes that you are aware of, you're very likely in politics and/or advocacy.

Human decency is a very nebulous term when it comes right down to it. What I find right or wrong may not match what you find right or wrong. Without an agreed upon objective measure you can't define who is actually right - regardless of how clear or blurred the lines appear to you.

Without that objective measure, especially if debate skills are bad and participants are low on listening and high on fallacies, then it's really just an unproductive shouting match.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#535

Post by shkkmo » Sat, May 22, 2021, 4:46 AM UTC

brown9-2 wrote: post #246

crackercrews wrote: post #82

> Coinbase and Basecamp, which each lost 60 employees after their bosses changed the rules, have apparently been inundated with applications from people wanting to work for politics-free firms. Basecamp had 57 employees at the time of their announcement. Are they down to -3?

It’s a sum

That's not what the quote says. It clearly states that EACH company lost 60 employees. If the intent was to convey a sum then it would have needed to use words like "combined" "total" or "sum" or at the ambigous minimum noy included the "each" word that exclused the "sum" meaning from consideration.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#536

Post by danbolt » Sat, May 22, 2021, 4:46 AM UTC

ramblerman wrote: post #442

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is nothing to suggest the man acted improperly at work. We've had this discussion already, but claiming sexist views is going to be a problem for you whether you do it at work or elsewhere because of how laws around hostile work environments and notice work. Particularly, if you go on to actually create a hostile work environment (as one might reasonably suppose you will, having publicly espoused the relevant…

> claiming sexist views This is a pretty vague statement especially as OP mentioned fiction. Not some book espousing his political views. You can pick most of the great authors and find a character or scene that was obscene, but it would be unfair to cherry pick 2-3 sentences, post them on twitter and pretend this represented them.

I feel like I get to enjoy the works of great authors at a distance. Most of them won’t be managing me at work.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#537

Post by throway98752343 » Sat, May 22, 2021, 4:49 AM UTC

furyofantares wrote: post #448

smegger001 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the one that gets me is adding race to emoji. they all used to be 'Simpsons yellow', a skin tone not found in any ethnic or racial group, and as such not representing or excluding any group but now we have black white and other various skin tones for our happy-faces. WHY? Does black happy face mean something different than white happy face isn't happiness universal? why bring race into something that was simply meant…

I perceive the cartoon yellow emojis to be white, an alternative interpretation never occurred to me at all. The first time a black coworker gave a black thumbs-up reaction on slack, I noticed I didn't want to +1 it. I didn't identify with it, it didn't feel like it was coming from me. This was a strong reaction and totally unexpected, and it was a "holy shit" moment as well, because I suddenly imagined how excluded…

I've found myself using the gender neutral reactions instead of the gendered versions despite not identifying with them as much just so my colleagues don't have to choose between incrementing an emoji that doesn't represent them and highlighting that they're different by adding their own gendered reaction.

But it'd be nice to not have to think about it the first place.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#538

Post by throw7 » Sat, May 22, 2021, 4:53 AM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #252

spamizbad wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a problem found in fancy valley tier-1 unicorns then. I keep hearing stories of people bombarded with political discussions on a daily basis and can hardly believe them. I'm not doubting anyone's sincerity but jeez... I feel like this perhaps localized to certain segments of the industry. I've worked in this industry for over a decade and really haven't had any major political discussions with cowork…

This is happening because these large tech companies- not just tier-1 unicorns but FAANGs themselves, have been presenting themselves as paternalistic employers for the past decade. You provide employees with all the free food, on-campus gyms, and massages by appointment as they want, then present them with supposedly open cultures of free inquiry, your employees are going to use it. You satiate someone's lower level…

https://youtu.be/n2RNcPRtAiY?t=100

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#539

Post by lanstin » Sat, May 22, 2021, 4:55 AM UTC

throwkeep wrote: post #516

hluska wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t help but wonder if the tech industry did this to itself. Tech companies offer so many amenities at the office from free food, to laundry, to massages that the line between office and home has blurred. Maybe the solution is making offices feel like offices and normalizing forty hour work weeks?

It started with bulldozer parenting, which lead to a generation being unequipped to deal with the real world. They are effectively still toddlers, stuck in arrested development. They demand to be protected from everything, including words and ideas. If they don't get what they want, they throw a tantrum. Colleges turned into their pushover parents, and then tech companies, and now almost every institution. https://ww…

I have two college age children and two high school age kids, and i work with a number of people right out of school, and that statement does not reflect my experience. Multiple recessions, 9-11, covid, climate change, social unrest due to racism and violence, and yet they are motivated to act as citizens with responsibility for their system of government. They work hard, are savvy about many things we never spoke of in the 1980s in North Carolina, trauma and difficulties of all sorts, and work to help each other. In a world where the older generations seem happy to condemn them to expensive education, economic and health insecurity, and all sorts of under investment in basic infrastructure, they are pragmatic and innovative in their efforts to improve the whole. They both see the insanity of the Leet Code gates, and develop many ways to master it.

Re: Woke at Work: Why tech firms are trying to run away from politics and failing

#540

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 22, 2021, 4:55 AM UTC

klyrs wrote: post #200

anon7725 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it started with college campus activism 10-20 years ago. If you feel empowered to shut down the dean’s office to oust a professor, you’ll probably think the same techniques can be applied to your workplace. It certainly doesn’t help that your workplace strives to walk and quack like some kind of college campus.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_activism A quick skim indicates that student activism has been recorded in some places dating to the early 1800s. How far do you think we should roll back civil rights?

[deleted]