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$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

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Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#531

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No--there was no movment on electrical vechicles before his interest. That alone should be enough to put his image on a coin.

Please do not attempt to rewrite history. The electric vehicle has a long and storied history, and the modern revival was well underway in the 90s and 00s. Tesla Roadster was the first (I think?) highway-legal EV.

The Roadster was the first highway-legal EV to use a lithium-ion battery. The GM EV1 used 16.5 kWh of lead-acid batteries.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#532

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Just put a carbon tax on everything with environmental side effects and let the market sort it out, otherwise who decides what get's banned? For example, I think cars contribute very significantly to global warming and use lots of fossil fuels, do I get to say, let's ban all cars and force everyone to use public transport? No!

Bans of future sales of ICE vehicles are a thing, a lot of countries either have them or are proposing them.

Gonna have lot of exemptions. Long haul and industrial/farm/mining equipment cannot always run on batteries.

We are going to have ICE's for a long time.

Mindless bans like that, if overzealous, will just push even more of industry to Asia/China, where most of pollution happens today anyway.

I wouldn't be surprised if China funds quite a few green causes, big boost for their industries, and they get to just ignore all emissions rules.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#533
post #151

Some of the major threads in this saga so far: Tesla Makes More Money Trading Bitcoin Than Selling Cars - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27142261 - May 2021 (171 comments) Elon Musk: Bitcoin's energy usage trend over the past few months is insane - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27141493 - May 2021 (41 comments) Tesla no longer accepts Bitcoin due to climate impact - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2…

This HN library work is so good. Thanks for these types of HN trees. I've been thinking of offering to help your team with some tooling work. But if you needed help, you'd probably find it somewhere. So I'll just cheer you on here. (A fella emailed me about Lumen the other day, asking what I thought about Scheme's (let ((a 1) (b 2)) ...) syntax. I said "If you want to, you can write a macro to implement Scheme. But L…

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Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#534

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Wrong topic?

Sorry if it sounded out of place. The context is that Dan's team does so much impactful work thanks to powerful software. But for various reasons, a lot of the required knowledge is esoteric. (Do you know how to write an emacs library to provide proper indentation for arc? If not, are you ready to dive in and learn, without extensive supervision?) It's also crucial for HN team members to be trustworthy and effective.…

Wow. Just wow. I like Hacker News like the next person. In fact, I'm here all the time. But it's a business expense for Y Combinator, is it not? That's not a charity. These folks may do great work, and I like it a lot, but isn't it also just their job that they get paid for. There's people that go above and beyond in a lot of companies, many of them sadly less visible, while you make it weirdly (to me) sound like something special, which I just can't see. It's a great website, though, and a major part of my internet diet. So, thanks to all involved, community included.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just put a carbon tax on everything with environmental side effects and let the market sort it out, otherwise who decides what get's banned? For example, I think cars contribute very significantly to global warming and use lots of fossil fuels, do I get to say, let's ban all cars and force everyone to use public transport? No!

Bans of future sales of ICE vehicles are a thing, a lot of countries either have them or are proposing them.

I'm willing to bet that Bitcoin mining will be 100% renewable (compared to 40-70% depending on whose numbers you look at today) before ICE vehicles are all gone. I'm basing this on the fact that miners are incentivized to always seek the cheapest source of energy and that renewable/stranded energy is only going to become cheaper over time. At one point, hydro/wind/nuclear will become much more cheaper than coal/fossil fuels, it's inevitable.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#536

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This difference is that in PoS, if anyone ever holds more than ⅓ of the total supply (as is the case with Ethereum's founders currently holding 65% of the overall issuance, for example), they can indefinitely control the chain through their re-org capability.

I don't have a reference but rumours have it Joe Lubin alone controls close to 10%, which would be close to 50 billion today. With the usually apathetic voters/stakers, one such loud voice can sway a PoS network easily.

"With the usually apathetic voters/stakers"

What makes you think eth stakers are apathetic?

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From https://vitalik.ca/general/2020/09/11/coordination.html "A large mining pool publicly showing how they have internally distributed their nodes and network dependencies doesn't do much to calm community members scared of mining centralization. And pictures like these, showing 90% of Bitcoin hashpower at the time being capable of showing up to the same conference panel, do quite a bit to scare people". If you foll…

This difference is that in PoS, if anyone ever holds more than ⅓ of the total supply (as is the case with Ethereum's founders currently holding 65% of the overall issuance, for example), they can indefinitely control the chain through their re-org capability.

Could you: 1. Point me to the source that says, " if anyone ever holds more than ⅓ of the total supply (as is the case with Ethereum's founders currently holding 65% of the overall issuance, for example), they can indefinitely control the chain through their re-org capability." 2. Point me to the addresses of Ethereum's founders? Presumably it's then 65% of 115 million eth.

Would honestly love to see the details.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bans of future sales of ICE vehicles are a thing, a lot of countries either have them or are proposing them.

Gonna have lot of exemptions. Long haul and industrial/farm/mining equipment cannot always run on batteries. We are going to have ICE's for a long time. Mindless bans like that, if overzealous, will just push even more of industry to Asia/China, where most of pollution happens today anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if China funds quite a few green causes, big boost for their industries, and they get to just ignore all…

I agree that there will likely be exceptions, but long-haul isn't one of them. The trucking industry is already subject to a lot of regulations around mandatory rest stops, so there are well-established break points along every major long-haul route.

This has lead to things like [1] where it is significantly more economical for long-haulers to electrify their existing fleet than continue using diesel fuel. I suspect long-haul will reach 90% electrification long before last-mile trucking and private-use automotives.

That said, I imagine you are spot on regarding farming - and pushing industry to less restrictive jurisdictions.

[1]: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/apr/29/swap-...

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This difference is that in PoS, if anyone ever holds more than ⅓ of the total supply (as is the case with Ethereum's founders currently holding 65% of the overall issuance, for example), they can indefinitely control the chain through their re-org capability.

Could you: 1. Point me to the source that says, " if anyone ever holds more than ⅓ of the total supply (as is the case with Ethereum's founders currently holding 65% of the overall issuance, for example), they can indefinitely control the chain through their re-org capability." 2. Point me to the addresses of Ethereum's founders? Presumably it's then 65% of 115 million eth. Would honestly love to see the details.

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Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From https://vitalik.ca/general/2020/09/11/coordination.html "A large mining pool publicly showing how they have internally distributed their nodes and network dependencies doesn't do much to calm community members scared of mining centralization. And pictures like these, showing 90% of Bitcoin hashpower at the time being capable of showing up to the same conference panel, do quite a bit to scare people". If you foll…

This difference is that in PoS, if anyone ever holds more than ⅓ of the total supply (as is the case with Ethereum's founders currently holding 65% of the overall issuance, for example), they can indefinitely control the chain through their re-org capability.

Apparently Vitalik has 333,000 ETH https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2021/01/11/b.... Which would be 0.29% of the 115 million current supply.

I guess Joe has the other 64.71%, or perhaps there are a whole bunch of other founders that I'm unaware of...

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