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$365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

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Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#521

Post by andrepd »

kevinbache wrote: post #283
pkulak wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cus he's not that bright. Isn't this the elephant in the room that no one wants to consider? Why do we have to start with the assumption that Musk is a genius, then work back from that? The dude thought covid would go away last May. He thinks it's easier to make Mars habitable than it is to keep the Earth habitable. He's thought that full self driving was 6 months away for literally 4 years now. And he didn't really…

He's single handedly accelerated the adoption of electric cars by 10 years while advancing literal rocket science to the point where launches will be done 10x cheaper. For those of us who measure by outcomes, he's a genius.

I hate this "capitalist-worship" for lack of a better term. He "single-handedly" did nothing, he merely supplied the capital and the coordination for a team of ~hundreds of thousands of people to build rockets and EVs.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#522

Post by inter_netuser »

lisper wrote: post #474
Entwickler wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From https://vitalik.ca/general/2020/09/11/coordination.html "A large mining pool publicly showing how they have internally distributed their nodes and network dependencies doesn't do much to calm community members scared of mining centralization. And pictures like these, showing 90% of Bitcoin hashpower at the time being capable of showing up to the same conference panel, do quite a bit to scare people". If you foll…

Or, for that matter, leaving fiscal matters in the hands of a central bank with a board of governors appointed by democratically elected officials? Honestly, I don't see how the status quo in crypto actually improves on that at all (unless you are in the ransomware business, of course. Then it makes sense.)

You could try auditing central banks, see how long you can remain alive. Bitcoin is an open ledger that can be audited by anyone. That alone is a significant improvement.

It is also the closest thing we have in practice to the "Ideal money" proposal by Nash, that Nash spent 20 years giving lectures about around the world.

Nash's notes and slides on that: http://web.math.princeton.edu/jfnj/texts_and_graphics/Main.C...

The improvement of status quo is quite obvious. Bitcoin is a potential solution to the Triffin's dilemma.

This is something of the scale that can alter the course of history and impact every country on Earth.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#523

Post by inter_netuser »

martindale wrote: post #520
Entwickler wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From https://vitalik.ca/general/2020/09/11/coordination.html "A large mining pool publicly showing how they have internally distributed their nodes and network dependencies doesn't do much to calm community members scared of mining centralization. And pictures like these, showing 90% of Bitcoin hashpower at the time being capable of showing up to the same conference panel, do quite a bit to scare people". If you foll…

This difference is that in PoS, if anyone ever holds more than ⅓ of the total supply (as is the case with Ethereum's founders currently holding 65% of the overall issuance, for example), they can indefinitely control the chain through their re-org capability.

I don't have a reference but rumours have it Joe Lubin alone controls close to 10%, which would be close to 50 billion today.

With the usually apathetic voters/stakers, one such loud voice can sway a PoS network easily.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#524

Post by hooande »

kingo55 wrote: post #253
tom_mellior wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you on everything except the Bitcoin bit. I think he knew exactly that (a) it's a highly speculative asset, and (b) he has enough rabid fans and general publicity to move the market in exactly the ways that he benefits from.

That makes it sound like he was doing a cheap pump and dump. Maybe you're right.

I'll say again, it makes no sense for Elon Musk to do a cheap pump and dump. He's worth over $100 billion. The hundreds of millions he might make from a pump and dump are literally a rounding error to him

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#525

Post by inter_netuser »

Barrin92 wrote: post #420
plebianRube wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proof of work keeps the network fair. Non mining nodes have the final say. Proof of stake lets players with the most money have the most say.

>Proof of stake lets players with the most money have the most say. Okay, and what do you think the mining equipment is acquired with exactly?

Miners don't really have much say, they cannot impose rules on the network, unlike PoS stakers.

PoS malicious stakers lose nothing in case of a split. Miners should they attempt a 51% attack will lose everything.

Not even in the same category.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#526

Post by inter_netuser »

ses1984 wrote: post #497
izolate wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the non-mining nodes that verify transactions and have the final say, and those can be run on home devices by regular people. That's the difference.

Non mining nodes do diddly squat.

Nonsense.

If miners's new block isnt accepted by the network - they've just lost millions.

Rules are enforced by block verification of the nodes that accept - or refuse to accept mined blocks.

It's amazing that in 2021 people still do not understand the basics of it.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#527

Post by angry_octet »

chrismorgan wrote: post #403
Lramseyer wrote: post #393

I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned it here, but this crypto boom has sent demand for mining hardware through the roof, which has contributed in no small part to the chip shortage. Miners are buying up ASICs, GPUs and FPGAs at a premium. In the short term, crashing the crypto market can ease demand for semiconductors, but in the long term, getting cryptos to move to Proof of Steak will hopefully ease it up for good…

> Proof of Steak There’s so much scope for word play humour here that I’m paralysed by choice. Vegetarianism, steak and chips…

It's obvious that steak needs chips, hence proof of steak will inevitably lead to a chip shortage.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#528

Post by saalweachter »

rawtxapp wrote: post #495
user-the-name wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proof of work also boils the planet. It needs to be banned, yesterday.

Just put a carbon tax on everything with environmental side effects and let the market sort it out, otherwise who decides what get's banned? For example, I think cars contribute very significantly to global warming and use lots of fossil fuels, do I get to say, let's ban all cars and force everyone to use public transport? No!

Bans of future sales of ICE vehicles are a thing, a lot of countries either have them or are proposing them.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#529

Post by inter_netuser »

user-the-name wrote: post #438
plebianRube wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proof of work keeps the network fair. Non mining nodes have the final say. Proof of stake lets players with the most money have the most say.

Proof of work also boils the planet. It needs to be banned, yesterday.

So do dishwashers and hot tubs, hypocrite.

Re: $365B wiped off cryptocurrency market after Tesla stops accepting Bitcoin

#530

Post by cryptonector »

pkulak wrote: post #493
cryptonector wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, did you not just do that above, calling Musk not that bright?

As far as I know, when I made my first comment we weren’t yet debating dumb vs evil.

It was practically an invitation to though.
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