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EU countries team up for semiconductor push

reuters.com

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Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#531

Post by jariel »

bildung wrote: post #190
jariel wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"if someone can suffer the US' shitty conditions, " So crap, that people around the world are fighting to get in, what for those jobs that pay 2-3x, and real exciting projects to work on, and for the most part people that actually don't care about your funny accent. It's unwise to discount one of the US's fundamental, perennial and systematic advantages as somehow a drawback. Like it or not - the US has been sucking…

You have to look which countries people are actually migrating from. Net migration to the US from the richer EU countries is about 0, i.e. about the same number of US citizens are moving into the EU as are moving from those EU countries into the US.

"You have to look which countries people are actually migrating from."

This is a misunderstanding. 'Wealthy' people tend to not migrate anywhere, even America.

Amazingly talented and hard working Asians are coming to America in droves, which is a massive source of competitive wellbeing.

Google, Microsoft, Adobe etc. filling up the ranks with E. and SE. Asians at maybe 33% of their staff in SV for example.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#532

Post by bsder »

rossdavidh wrote: post #254

So, as someone who used to be an engineer in semiconductor manufacturing facilities, this reminds me a lot of Sematech. That was a joint venture between American companies in the 90's, when there was a concern that we were falling behind Japan. I'm sure there will be people who try to claim otherwise, but my view from inside AMD (at that time still doing its own manufacturing) was that nothing much ever came out of S…

> So, as someone who used to be an engineer in semiconductor manufacturing facilities, this reminds me a lot of Sematech.

However, the prior initiative was VHSIC and that basically produced the modern semiconductor industry (including the software tools!) in the US.

I was always under the impression that the difference between VHSIC and Sematech was simply that VHSIC threw around a LOT more money.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#533

Post by 908B64B197 »

photonios wrote: post #472
tristor wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What factors make you want to get out? As an American who's spent a lot of time in both the US and Continental Europe (and elsewhere) I don't see any terrific suck. At the risk of speaking out of turn, I've traveled extensively outside the US and befriended a lot of folks and had discussions on this topic with them. I would summarize my findings as such: 1. Economic Mobility: In Europe economic mobility, on average…

> The tech industry is a major factor in this, where senior-level positions in non-FAANG companies can make upwards of $150k/yr in the US, and the PPP equivalent European salary is around half of that. Why does this matter so much when there is affordable healthcare, lots of social programs to save you in case things don't go so well? I am honestly asking. I am in Europe and my salary is half of what I could make in…

> Why does this matter so much when there is affordable healthcare, lots of social programs to save you in case things don't go so well?

World class healthcare is included on top of the compensation at FAANG. Also, what are these social programs you refer to?

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#534

Post by jnurmine »

screye wrote: post #335

Genuine question - Has any major tech innovation/ product come out European industry (mainland EU) over the last couple of decades ? (not Academia) Their biggest tech companies are Spotify and Skype. That's pretty underwhelming given that Spotify's biggest innovations are in product development and Skype became a subsidiary of an American company within 2 years of its existence. Additionally, the 2 companies that see…

Short answer: yes, there is plenty of innovation taking place in diverse domains ranging from elevators to energy grids to robotics to pharmacology/biotech to medtech to defence to telecommunications to green tech and so forth and so on.

If the criteria of tech innovation is a cloud-based xAAS then the list will be unfortunately short.

The semiconductor push was really expected for a longer time already and is (I think) obviously part of the aspirations in the strategic autonomy continuum. If the roles were reversed, that is, EU with some Asian countries owned and controlled the majority of all chip fabrication, it would make perfect sense for USA to start chip production of its own on its own soil.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#535

Post by estaseuropano »

rjzzleep wrote: post #208
yvdriess wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It does make it baffling why Intel is unable to produce 5nn chips with the same ASML machines TSC is using. It must be management failing Boeing style. ASML machines do not produce chips, they're just ones doing the etching. There is a ton around what you do with it, and how all the rest of the chip is produced. They don't come with pre-programmed transistor gate templates. Each fab company has its own libraries of…

And yet it's enough to spark a geopolitical war to block China from acquiring these machines[1], which basically means China has massively ramped up it's EUV investment if you look at semiengineering investment news. At the same time you can trust that TSMC secrets are no longer secret[2]. A lot of the Taiwanese companies are actually quite bad at security despite Taiwan have some top notch security engineers. I gues…

Sorry but it looks as if you had a view and then googled articles to back this up. The second article is about IP theft and gives no reason to doubt TSMC's integrity. Nor does it give any reason to think Taiwanese companies are worse at opsec than e.g. US or Dutch players.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#536

Post by kabes »

nixass wrote: post #435
tristor wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What factors make you want to get out? As an American who's spent a lot of time in both the US and Continental Europe (and elsewhere) I don't see any terrific suck. At the risk of speaking out of turn, I've traveled extensively outside the US and befriended a lot of folks and had discussions on this topic with them. I would summarize my findings as such: 1. Economic Mobility: In Europe economic mobility, on average…

Worth noting that many Americans I know in Europe, have no plans to ever come back, they don't see USA as an option anymore once experienced life here. Source: work for FAANG, I see many one way relocations US>EU, not so much other way around. Furthermore: 1. yeah, triple the money, quadruple the life costs, and no social security safety net, or at least poor one. 2. what? 3. FREEDOM - very US centric view on the "fr…

Triple the money, quadruple the life costs might still mean a lot more money bottom line.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#537

Post by novok »

photonios wrote: post #472
tristor wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What factors make you want to get out? As an American who's spent a lot of time in both the US and Continental Europe (and elsewhere) I don't see any terrific suck. At the risk of speaking out of turn, I've traveled extensively outside the US and befriended a lot of folks and had discussions on this topic with them. I would summarize my findings as such: 1. Economic Mobility: In Europe economic mobility, on average…

> The tech industry is a major factor in this, where senior-level positions in non-FAANG companies can make upwards of $150k/yr in the US, and the PPP equivalent European salary is around half of that. Why does this matter so much when there is affordable healthcare, lots of social programs to save you in case things don't go so well? I am honestly asking. I am in Europe and my salary is half of what I could make in…

You have affordable healthcare if your making tech money in the USA too, and sadly, if things really go bad you can always move back.

Also by making more money, you can retire early and then work on whatever hobby project you'd like. I know in europe with generous social programs you kind of can do that already to a certain extent, but with money you can actually do that for a long time.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#538

Post by yvdriess »

the_crocodile wrote: post #392
yvdriess wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It does make it baffling why Intel is unable to produce 5nn chips with the same ASML machines TSC is using. It must be management failing Boeing style. ASML machines do not produce chips, they're just ones doing the etching. There is a ton around what you do with it, and how all the rest of the chip is produced. They don't come with pre-programmed transistor gate templates. Each fab company has its own libraries of…

A point of clarification. ASML does lithography, which creates the patterns for the chips. The big players in etch (removing layers of material following the pattern) are Lam Research and Applied Materials, both American companies.

Yep, I used the wrong term there. s/etching/lithography/

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#539

Post by TMWNN »

gumby wrote: post #168
Zdup wrote: post #12

How will they be keeping talent? I heard workers in IT are paid low compared to other jobs and especially compared to similar jobs in North America, what stops them. from just going to US/Canada?

Having lived in both (and being a citizen of neither): quality of life. Your headline salary in the Us is higher but disposable income is often lower. You spend more time managing your life in the USA with less time left to live it. Some people enjoy that of course. I do find the working environment better in the US, and I enjoy my work, but on most other parameters it’s inferior.

> Your headline salary in the Us is higher but disposable income is often lower.

At $45,284 the US has the highest household net disposable income per capita in the OECD (http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/united-states/), where "disposable income" (http://stats.oecd.org/glossary/detail.asp?ID=46) accounts for healthcare and government benefits.

Re: EU countries team up for semiconductor push

#540

Post by Tsiklon »

dragonelite wrote: post #455
m000 wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any references of English actually being phased-out in EU? The Politico article was written just a few days after the Brexit referendum, and 4 years later I can only take it for empty sabre-rattling.

Either make french or german the language of diplomacy wouldn't be the first time in history that was done.

Proposing either of those two as a lingua franca (irony aside), would be a sure fire way to start an enormous argument in the EU.

Surprisingly with the UK out of the EU; English is perhaps best placed to fill this role, as it is now a "neutral" language, with only the Irish and Maltese contingents who, broadly speaking, don't wield the same influence as France and Germany.

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