Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy • Hacker News Board

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#531

Post by gonehome » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 9:06 PM UTC

ummonk wrote: post #500

gonehome wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, agreed - sounds like we have a similar take :). In my specific case my SO grew up in Cupertino and her family is here, so that's another element that makes it hard to leave. I'm currently doing the live with roommates bit, but it's a hard tradeoff to make. Also I saw where you work in your HN bio - do you partner with VRAD (or maybe are considering starting your own)? I've always though leveraging ML imaging sof…

Why can't you rent a studio or 1-bedroom without roommates? A Bay Area tech salary should more than cover it.

Yeah we definitely can, but larger place with roommates is both twice as nice and a lot cheaper.

Helps to save more to try and buy a place eventually.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#532

Post by nunez » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 9:08 PM UTC

scottlocklin wrote: post #92

kilbuz wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always have to ask, where are you moving and why did you pick it?

I always answer: fuck off; we're full. California, particularly Bay Area California is so ridiculously dysfunctional, the last thing any region needs is their refugees, who will bring with them the problems they're fleeing. Austin for example. Used to be a great place.

Austin isn’t full at all lol

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#533

Post by momokoko » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 9:10 PM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #240

arcturus17 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much equity would you need to hold to compensate for a 30-40% decrease in wages?

Who is experiencing the decrease in wages? For many Americans the distribution of these jobs to other locations would result in an increase in wages. Not to mention, the top companies would still hire top talent in a competitive market.

Current company just released yesterday pay tiers for those that move out of Bay Area and that is about the salary reduction most are looking at.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#534

Post by qppo » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 9:13 PM UTC

ip26 wrote: post #386

iancmceachern wrote: post #356

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>I think THE major difference was enforcement of noncompetes (as well as those as a proxy for a slew of similar regulatory differences). Exactly

But was that part of brilliant overarching strategy from visionary government leaders to develop and foster the world's tech hub, or an accident of history?

An accident most likely, since the policy dates to the 19th century.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

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Post by bcheung » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 9:14 PM UTC

Raidion wrote: post #471

dpoochieni wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not maybe, it is supply and demand. IF the supply of remote labor does increase then the share of economic profit going to capital also increases. (i.e. Employers keep more of the profits as opposed to sharing)

This is true both ways though. If you're getting paid 140k, but your rent is 5k a month, you're only capturing 80k of wages, and the landlords are capturing 60k in rent. If you're working remotely for 100k, and paying 1.7k a month in rent, you're capturing ~80k as well. That means more capital is going to the employers(who saves 40k) at the expense of the landlords (who lose out on that 40k). I honestly think I'd rat…

The formula is different if you are a home owner, at least it was when there was more appreciation. You don't mind paying a higher mortgage as much if you are capturing a huge chunk of your current salary in home equity each year. Bay area home ownership is where a lot of people made their money.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#536

Post by shuckles » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 9:14 PM UTC

tharne wrote: post #519

shuckles wrote: post #486

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Comments like this make me wonder if the end of SV meme is some kind of psyops campaign.

It's not. It really is just that disconnected from the everyday realities of the rest of the country.

Silicon Valley has a single major drawback, cost of living, which is downstream of land use and transportation policy that’s virtually identical throughout the country. Basically every large and growing metropolitan area in the nation sees the same relative price trends. Famous low cost alt-SV Austin has seen its Case-Schiller index move within 15% of San Jose. To argue that its governance is especially backwards or selfish and, thus, deserving of failure is to indict the entire nation.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#537

Post by alentist » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 9:14 PM UTC

danans wrote: post #511

alentist wrote: post #427

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Not sure if you’re aware, but many of the links I shared are about the Bay Area as a whole . > libertarian subcultures I’m sure there are lots of subcultures. What does this have to do with who is actually governing?

> I’m sure there are lots of subcultures. What does this have to do with who is actually governing? A whole lot. Look no further than the recent ballot initiative won by Uber and Lyft against classifying drivers as full employees, or similarly failed ballot initiative to remove prop 13 from commercial property taxes. The direction of both results was very much in the libertarian direction.

> A whole lot.

So, since the Bay Area has socialist subcultures [0], and they actually have power [1], will you say it is socialist in governance? Or are you applying a double standard?

> The direction of both results was very much in the libertarian direction.

Those two particular results, sure. What about all the other results and legislation I referenced?

[0] https://dsasf.org

[1] https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/11/13/young-democratic-soci...

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#538

Post by JKCalhoun » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 9:15 PM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #396

TomVDB wrote: post #347

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2900ft houses is a good way to skew the argument in your favor, but it's a bit of a strawman: the vast majority of houses in the Bay Area aren't 2900ft to begin with, yet 2000ft house are plenty, with 4 bedroom, on, say, a 6000ft lot. You can easily find one of those for $2M, and they're not shacks. This is a $2M house, 2600 sqft, 5BD house on an 11000 sqft lot: https://www.redfin.com/CA/Santa-Clara/2602-Birchtree-Ln…

I don't know if I'd say plenty. Redfin filters: - Santa Clara - Sqft Min: 2000 - Property Type: House - Price Max: $2M Results: 9 If you set a minimum year built to 2000 (so up to 20 years old) Results: 0 You're right though that there are houses you can find in less desirable areas on the peninsula for around 2 million (and San Jose is cheaper, east bay is cheaper). Usually though there's some tradeoff (bad schools,…

Yes, I think the people on each side are using "Santa Clara" differently.

As the County of Santa Clara, you can find a nice 2000 sq. ft. home for $1.2M.

South San Jose, people.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#539

Post by umeshunni » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 9:16 PM UTC

abeppu wrote: post #373

standardUser wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just SF, it's the region and it's inability/refusal to act like a cohesive region. But SF has certainly suffered the most.

5 Bay Area counties coordinated in going into lockdown earlier than the state required. Sometimes we do act like a region.

You bring up the perfect example, because in the current lock down San Mateo county refused to participate in the shelter in place mandate that their 2 neighboring counties opted in to. So, you cannot dine outdoors in Palo Alto, but can walk 1/2 mile north to Menlo Park and dine at a restaurant.

Re: Tech elites leaving San Francisco threaten Silicon Valley's supremacy

#540

Post by kbos87 » Mon, Dec 07, 2020, 9:18 PM UTC

eikenberry wrote: post #434

ericmay wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, mostly. The bottom is still decently high even in Midwest cities. But if you’re making $140,000 + RSU/Bonus/Etc., someone from somewhere else will do that job remotely for $100,000 easy. But I would characterize this as a wealth distribution, and overall net positive for the country. People who don’t have the opportunities to work at the top companies in the Bay Area or NYC or Boston now have better access.…

The one thing people seem to keep forgetting about when talking about this race to the bottom is how hard it is to find good software authors. My company is fully remote and global and it is still really hard to find good people. I really don't see much of a change given the current unmet, and rising, demand.

Agree with this. If a purely cost driven race to the bottom is inevitable, it already would have happened. I think what’s going on right now increases the competition for roles that some people may have previously had a geographic advantage over others in obtaining, but I don’t think this means that advantage is gone, nor do I think it’s a zero sum game. There may be some downward wage pressure, but if cost was your only motivator as an employer, you were probably already hiring remote teams in low cost markets.