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Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

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Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think apps are allowed to do this on Android any more. You can designate that an app can only have location access while the app is open and in use.

Right, for sure, that’s a choice users have. (On the iphone too, fwiw). Sadly, outside of tech circles very few people would have the knowledge or even motivation to do this. The attitudes of the populace to online privacy are frighteningly callous.

I believe Singapore's app for iPhone instructed users to keep their phone unlocked with the app open because of this.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#532
post #371

I have to say, working at Apple and knowing all the hard work that goes into this and making sure your data stays private while also being able to combat this disease, it's very frustrating to read a lot of the comments here. I can understand why the public is skeptical, but I feel like as a society we've swung so far away from institutional trust that now nothing good can actually emerge. The anti-vax movement is a…

I think the notion of trusting any company over a certain size is crazy - I wish people would stop anthropomorphizing companies that way. Basically, I can trust specific people if I feel that I know their character, and by proxy I might trust a company that these people have significant control over. Once a company reaches a certain size, any power that individual employees wield will have been diluted to microscopic…

+1

Well put. Corporations aren’t people no matter what Citizens United “says.” Their goal is maximizing shareholder profit at any cost. They do nothing out of the goodness of the hearts they don’t have and they certainly are not guided by ethics the way individuals are.

As you said, if Apple “cares” about privacy more than Google or Facebook it is not because it is a more “moral” or “just” company, it is simply because its business model is not, and never was, based on hoovering up and monetizing personal data.

It’s not like a conscious decision was made by Tim Cook or Apple’s shareholders to do things differently than the aforementioned two companies.

Pointing out how Apple “cares about your privacy” is simply a PR (read: propaganda) move designed to gain some extra positive publicity which, of course, helps the bottom line. It’s the kind of thing companies do all the time. Taking these pronouncements at face value requires a certain naïveté (or a wilful suspension of disbelief).

And while Apple might not traffic in its customers’ personal data, the company recently revealed that it scans content stored on its servers, e.g. your iCloud Photo Library, because of “concerns” over child pornography.

This suggests privacy isn’t quite as sacred to Apple as its PR department would have one believe.

(Never mind that there is no evidence whatsoever that mass surveillance reduces incidence of child sexual abuse or decreases the production and distribution of child porn. Which begs the question, why is Apple spying on its paying customers’ personal content?)

Whenever a company, or a government, deploys the cliché “think about the children!” argument as a pretext for increasing internet surveillance, you can bet this reason was chosen because if anyone objects on privacy grounds they can say, “what, so you’re on the side of the child pornographers/suicide trolls/cyber bullies?” It’s a discussion stopping tactic.

Yeah, corporations are definitely not people, they are not your friends and they do not care about you as a person. That in 2020 this even needs to be said is a testament to how thoroughly corporate propaganda has been woven into the fabric of western culture.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read Snowden's biography - Permanent Record . Your claims are untrue. The sibling comment has it right - the US govt could steal data from the tech giants but they gradually got better at plugging such leaks. For example, in response to the Snowden revelations, all data in transit between datacenters is now encrypted. On the other hand, the govt would also request the data of a few people, which was generally grant…

Do you recall the news that NSA (US Intel Agency) paid RSA (US security vendor) $10m go backdoor encryptions libraries? If this was exposed once it’s happening elsewhere. There was also the case of the NIST elliptic curve encryption best practices being subverted for NSA backdoors standard. They’ve got a job to do. They’re doing it. But worth noting that a vendor could claim be pro privacy while also cooperating with…

And we also have examples of companies refusing to comply. And we all use djb’s curves rather than the nist curves now.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former Apple employee, it's gutsy for you to post this, or anything, certainly on a controversial topic. You don't work for the kind of employer that values someone sticking their head out and saying ... anything. They want to control the message, and saying anything may be worse for both you, and for Apple, than saying nothing. Just be careful. Apple's got the people to manage this PR situation.

> it's gutsy for you to post this, That comment seems completely neutral. Not being able to post that comment without worrying about consequences sounds absolutely dystopian.

It's Apple, that's how it works. You've frequently got no idea what the person down the hallway is working on.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#535

I have to say, working at Apple and knowing all the hard work that goes into this and making sure your data stays private while also being able to combat this disease, it's very frustrating to read a lot of the comments here. I can understand why the public is skeptical, but I feel like as a society we've swung so far away from institutional trust that now nothing good can actually emerge. The anti-vax movement is a…

I do think that open sourcing and transparency matter a lot in this era. Do that first before claiming the hard work, if not what's the difference between a mad scientist and a doctor?

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any negative consequences to turning that off? What are those locations used for?

If you click on the link in the post you respond to, it explains what the locations are used for.

Thanks, but that's not very specific.

> It is used to provide you with personalized services, such as predictive traffic routing, and to build better Memories in Photos.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#537
post #407
post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> feel like as a society we've swung so far away from institutional trust The main mistake is that you compare, emotionally at least, Apple to an institute. But it's not, it's a commercial company. "We" never had or should have had any trust in commercial companies - maybe besides small ones as someone else noted here. The problem is that as a society we allowed a few commercial companies to become such an inherent p…

The size of the company doesn’t matter. Small companies are not inherently less evil. You can have a company with no VC backing or shareholders and screw over your customers at every turn. The idea that the size of the organization is directly related to whether or not it is worth trusting is ridiculous. Just because I don’t know everyone at a hospital doesn’t mean they aren’t worth trusting.

I was referring to this comment, I agree with what's written there.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23077187

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's gutsy for you to post this, That comment seems completely neutral. Not being able to post that comment without worrying about consequences sounds absolutely dystopian.

It's Apple, that's how it works. You've frequently got no idea what the person down the hallway is working on.

[deleted]

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The governments of the west need to be capable, but still protect the privacy of their people - that isn't an easy problem You're right, it's a hard problem. And until these companies or institutions can prove that they are doing this, why should we trust them? > who haven’t even tried to read about the protocol they’re working on. The companies will collect and store the tracking data, and the government will, one…

> The companies will collect and store the tracking data, and the government will, one way or another, have access to it. What is so difficult to understand about that? It's difficult to understand because it's false (and this statement shows you haven't tried to understand the solution they are proposing): The data doesn't leave the phone without the user's consent, the consent is only asked for if the user contract…

Thank you - the comment you replied to is basically a case in point of what I’m talking about.

> Protesting and making your opinions known is way to help solve the problem.

Not when the protesting and opinions are based on a false understanding that comes from motivated reasoning, knee-jerk negative responses, and not trying to understand the issue deeply.

Then it’s just noise that confuses the issue and makes things worse.

Most of the time it’s not helping to solve the real problem anyway. It just makes people feel good about themselves without actually engaging in the work.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having Google/Apple develop a tracking technology is the same as the US government having it. If you don't believe, read again what Snowden revealed several years ago.

I read Snowden's biography - Permanent Record . Your claims are untrue. The sibling comment has it right - the US govt could steal data from the tech giants but they gradually got better at plugging such leaks. For example, in response to the Snowden revelations, all data in transit between datacenters is now encrypted. On the other hand, the govt would also request the data of a few people, which was generally grant…

You must be ignorant of how these agencies work. All they want is plausible deniability. The spy agencies have all technology needed to access any phone. For example, it is widely known that Israel's agencies have the ability to enter any phone, iOS or Android, and get the information they want. They are now OPENLY using this technology to track corona virus cases:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/18/tech/israel-coronavirus-techn...

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-tech-company-says-it-c...

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