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Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

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Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#531
post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The first one is flattening China with nuclear weapons (conventional war is impossible to win) which is obviously inacceptable, the second one is totally excluding China from any and all international trade. The world had had more invasions, interventions, toppling of legitimate governments, etc, from the US than from China. And while the US keeps democracy internally (unlike China) they have supported all kinds of…

Right...perhaps you should ask the good people of Tibet, or the Muslims in western China if they feel that the Chinese government "minds its own effing business".

I have several friends from Xinjiang, yes, they complain about some (who don't complain about their government in life? As far as I know, Utopia is still a dream on the planet), but they feel good, even proud of their government. One of them, a girl, even volunteered in the rehearsal for the National Day parade.

For Tibetan, the government freed them from the old cult (you may don't know their nobles used to wear slave skin clothes and drink from human skull bowl), build railways accelerate their economy, lower the university score for them to help them get educated, enfranchise them to vote, propose new proposal in People's Congress, etc. So how do they feel about their government? I mean those Tibetans who live in China.

What's more, Tibetan, Muslims in western China, they are all Chinese people, so their issue IS the Chinese government's own business.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-interested motivations (TW) or transitory diplomatic policies aside, I mean that it is plainly a bullshit claim. "We're big and we want it really bad" is not a justifiable standard of resolving resource and territory disputes. Let's compare island occupation to island-building, island militarization and bullying tactics with vessels. Whatever combination of ways different parties are jostling over trying to de f…

> island militarization and bullying tactics with vessels Like sailing warships or flying military aircraft next to islands that a foreign country claims as its own? US military actions is the South China Sea could be viewed as highly provocative. I can see why China would respond by putting anti-aircraft batteries on the islands. > Self-interested motivations (TW) Everyone's motivations are self-interested. Virtuall…

> It claims that the islands have belonged to China for hundreds of years, and points to various old maps, historical use by Chinese fishermen, mentions in various treaties, and so on.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/13/world/asia/south-china-se... "... the tribunal rejected China’s argument that it enjoys historic rights over most of the South China Sea. "

> I mostly hope that the situation doesn't escalate, but many sides are capable of escalation - the US, China, the Philippines, Vietnam, and others.

Only one of those countries has been building / extending artificially reefs / islands in this area.

Xi lost face over this decision, and just said "tough, we aren't going to abide by it anyway". Hardly the actions of a reasonable government as good world citizens.

> I can think of much more serious issues than some uninhabited islands and rocks

China has deemed it very, very important to seize this area. It's pretty clear why to most people.

> US military actions is the South China Sea could be viewed as highly provocative. I can see why China would respond by putting anti-aircraft batteries on the islands.

You think it's reasonable to respond to freedom of navigation operations (also conducted by other countries than the USA) by militarising islands that aren't even theirs?

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't see how you think there's absolutely no connection here. The Chinese government has demonstrated very clearly it will coerce their citizens' compliance - they're not going to be immune to this just by not being activists. If you have something they want - or are able to do something they want - it's quite obvious they will use your family as leverage.

That hasn't been demonstrated. You're citing the treatment of Chinese people abroad who are affiliated with CIA-funded separatist organizations and drawing conclusions about how random people working for tech companies will be treated. I don't think these situations are analogous.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#534
It is a completely necessary action.

The National Intelligence Law of China, passed in 2017, demands that all its citizens "support, assist and comply with works on national intelligence", aka proactively collect intelligence for the regime. (Article 7)

(《国家情报法》第七条 任何组织和公民都应当依法支持、协助和配合国家情报工作,保守所知悉的国家情报工作秘密。 )

This also explains why Huawei devices SHALL be excluded from core communication networks of the free world.

Additionly, unless Jingping 11th go off from his power, the nation should simply be considered another Soviet Union, or even worse, the Nazi.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#535
I think they also need to:

1. Remove Vue.js from the Gitlab Production becuase:

- The founder&writer of Vue.js is Chinese and currently in China.

- Other than the funder and it's bot, the Top 3 contributors of it are Chinese and live in China

2. Remove vuex from the Gitlab Production becuase:

- The founder&writer of vuex is Chinese and currently in China.

- Other than the funder, there's still 5 contributors in Top20 that are Chinese and live in China

3. Remove Sizzle from the Gitlab Product becuase:

- the #19 contributor is from Russia and he committed twice and 4000+ lines of code

The security breach is HUGE, they need to fix it RIGHT NOW! What if there's spy code in those js libs!

If they passed the issue but keep those libs they're simply idiotic hypocrites

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#536
Could someone "in the know" elaborate on what specifically prompted them to contemplate this? e.g. They mention concerns from enterprise customers.

I commend the transparency of debating it in the open, but I suspect it'll get hard to maintain reasonable discourse once the issue hits mainstream headlines and becomes sensationalized.

The suggestion does feel like a giant cudgel. I get there are genuine concerns, and I don't have better ideas to offer. I can't help feeling bad for legitimate future job applicants who will feel discriminated against. I'm sure if a bad actor wants to do something adversarial, they'll find ways around it (like agents in a non-banned country).

It used to feel like attitudes of major world powers were slowly converging (Russia got some democrazy, China started to open up its economy, tolerance seemed to be growing). Now it scares me how fast they're diverging. Politics is seeping deeper into tech, and it's going to get more fervent. Curtailing trade is loosening the ties between disparate cultures (https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/peace-earth-fre...).

The internet was supposed to connect us all and help bring us closer together. What happened?

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#537
post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> island militarization and bullying tactics with vessels Like sailing warships or flying military aircraft next to islands that a foreign country claims as its own? US military actions is the South China Sea could be viewed as highly provocative. I can see why China would respond by putting anti-aircraft batteries on the islands. > Self-interested motivations (TW) Everyone's motivations are self-interested. Virtuall…

> It claims that the islands have belonged to China for hundreds of years, and points to various old maps, historical use by Chinese fishermen, mentions in various treaties, and so on. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/13/world/asia/south-china-se... "... the tribunal rejected China’s argument that it enjoys historic rights over most of the South China Sea. " > I mostly hope that the situation doesn't escalate, but man…

> "... the tribunal rejected China’s argument that it enjoys historic rights over most of the South China Sea. "

China doesn't recognize the tribunal's jurisdiction in this case, since China previously opted out of binding arbitration on territorial issues, as allowed by UNCLOS.

> Only one of those countries has been building / extending artificially reefs / islands in this area.

At the same time, the US has been conducting provocative military maneuvers in the South China Sea. These days, China and the Philippines are cooperating to some extent in the South China Sea. The US has been prodding the Philippines to take a more confrontational approach.

> China has deemed it very, very important to seize this area.

I think there are two issues. They view the sea as strategically important, and don't want to be at the mercy of the US Navy, which could shut down a lot of Chinese trade in the event of a conflict. They also don't want to lose face, and giving in to US demands that they drop China's traditional territorial claims would not go over well among the Chinese population.

> You think it's reasonable to respond to freedom of navigation operations (also conducted by other countries than the USA) by militarising islands that aren't even theirs?

"Freedom of navigation operations" is a propagandistic name given by the US Navy to very provocative military maneuvers in what China views as its territorial waters. I think it's entirely understandable that China puts defensive weaponry on islands it considers its own, in response to perceived violations of its sovereignty by a hostile military.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#538
post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right...perhaps you should ask the good people of Tibet, or the Muslims in western China if they feel that the Chinese government "minds its own effing business".

I have several friends from Xinjiang, yes, they complain about some (who don't complain about their government in life? As far as I know, Utopia is still a dream on the planet), but they feel good, even proud of their government. One of them, a girl, even volunteered in the rehearsal for the National Day parade. For Tibetan, the government freed them from the old cult (you may don't know their nobles used to wear sla…

Your friends are presumably not detained for continuing to believe in the religions of their parents, so they're going to have a more positive outlook based on the state of the economy.

Even if you think that it's desirable for the government to try to accelerate secularization with its "re-education camps," the implementation is guaranteed to cause a lot of suffering. The rushed timeline for construction, involuntary detention in the resulting cramped quarters, guards and teachers who were hired quickly with essentially zero training... all of this is just setting things up for physical and psychological abuse of inmates. Just look at the cases of 杨永信 and 豫章书院 torturing children to cure them of internet addiction to see how far people are willing to go if there's no oversight and their aims are supported by mainstream opinion. That the government tries so hard to suppress negative reporting doesn't exactly inspire confidence that abuse will be prosecuted.

My personal prediction is that the majority of inmates are going to come out of "re-education" traumatized and with a justified hatred of the government. I'm sure they'd prefer it if the government stuck to their business of modernizing the economy, instead of trying to force loyalty in the most ham-fisted way possible.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#539
post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It claims that the islands have belonged to China for hundreds of years, and points to various old maps, historical use by Chinese fishermen, mentions in various treaties, and so on. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/13/world/asia/south-china-se... "... the tribunal rejected China’s argument that it enjoys historic rights over most of the South China Sea. " > I mostly hope that the situation doesn't escalate, but man…

> "... the tribunal rejected China’s argument that it enjoys historic rights over most of the South China Sea. " China doesn't recognize the tribunal's jurisdiction in this case, since China previously opted out of binding arbitration on territorial issues, as allowed by UNCLOS. > Only one of those countries has been building / extending artificially reefs / islands in this area. At the same time, the US has been con…

> "Freedom of navigation operations" is a propagandistic name given by the US Navy to very provocative military maneuvers in what China views as its territorial waters.

The USA (and other countries, for example Australia) have been in international waters. How is navigating international waters 'propagandistic'?

Your responses are exactly in line with Beijing's positions on things, and your tone is eerily consistent with posts I've seen on other forums. One can only speculate as to why that is.

Re: Gitlab considers not hiring SREs and Support Engineers in China and Russia

#540
post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, the US government wont make my family disappear if I don’t cooperate, for starters. Right, if you're a U.S citizen maybe not, otherwise they'll do that and worse, read on "enhanced integrations", kidnappings etc. So the U.S is better domestically, (still employs prisoners as effectively slave labor, treats minorities harshly, lets people die due to lack of healthcare...), but it is worse in terms of foreign p…

Is the US worst in terms of foreign policy? Seems like the peoples of the South China sea, Tibet, and Hong Kong might have different opinions on that matter. Also all the nations in Africa with newly built debt trap infrastructure. The US has done some truly shit things abroad, but we’ve also been the dominant superpower during a period of unprecedented stability, prosperity, and peace when you look at the numbers. S…

This is very U.S. centrist, I'd grant you the relative peace and stability if you're in the West. But 70 years isn't that long and you could find empires with long stretches of time where relatively nothing was fundamentally changing for the dominant population of some of the long-lived empires. The U.S. in its modern form and position isn't around even as long as the golden age of democratic Athens was around.

Sure, there were historically always some tensions at the border regions of these empires, but there are pressures of such nature felt in Europe now too, (the U.S. has the advantage of being physically very, very far from the regions in unleashes its worst policies on, so of course it's less felt there).

Also, all empires saw themselves as in some way policing, keeping peace and bringing their enlightened values to what they saw as the lesser. If we see that kind of thinking now as wrong, then I really don't see how the U.S. is so much different from the empire model of old.

As for China, I agree its regional foreign policy is not great, the problem is the U.S. doesn't just keep it regional. It treats the whole world as its backyard.

If you're a non-U.S. citizen, the unipolar world is not so great. I don't want China to say replace the U.S. as the dominant superpower, I want it to offer a counter-balance. I want the EU to be its own great power, offering counter balance to both, bringing both democratic values & a more humane treatment of its own citizens than the U.S. has, especially the less fortunate.

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