We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage • Hacker News Board

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#531

Post by Vivtek » Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 1:10 AM UTC

revvx wrote: post #301

pm90 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the OP mentioned that the recruiter thought the candidate was lying which is why they low-balled. So that explains the logic at least. They're not stupid, but they don't trust candidates I guess. Which is a whole different thing.

Yeah, the recruiter told me the whole hiring team thought I was bullshitting about my salary. It was a problematic company from the get go. I was cold called and the recruiter was very insistent. Their engineers were very unprofessional during the technical interview and complained A LOT about technical debt left by past co-workers during the interview. Now, when I tell recruiters my minimum salary I refer recruiters…

I had that same experience interviewing with a startup in 1996, if you can believe it. They were looking at their "burn rate" by literally spending extra on airfare, but when I told them what I was earning, they said, "with that site?" No, doofuses, with my consulting; the site was just brochureware.

They didn't actually give me any answer until I asked them to give me one - then they said my attitude with the top management made it clear I wasn't a good candidate for the position.

Dodged that bullet.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#532

Post by droithomme » Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 1:12 AM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #387

bufferoverflow wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US salaries are on a whole new level when it comes to senior programmers. $200K+ base is normal, if you're good. $150/hr for consulting gigs is also normal if you're good. So your $5K after taxes wouldn't even register on my radar.

That's SV/NYC numbers. Plenty of great programmers in other parts of the country don't make that.

> Plenty of great programmers in other parts of the country don't make that

If they are great, they make much much much more than that no matter where they are.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#533

Post by pandaman » Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 1:12 AM UTC

SamuelAdams wrote: post #11

It sounds to me that this might be a problem with startups. I've been working in the enterprise space for 5 years, and I've never come across this sort of hiring. The last job I applied for was open from February 1 - March 1. After that, they pulled it down and began interviewing candidates. Six weeks later, I have an offer letter for a specific role with a well-negotiated compensation package. Personally if HR treat…

Recently a recruiter from one of the FAANG letters tried to make me sign an NDA before telling where the job was located.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#534

Post by systemBuilder » Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 1:12 AM UTC

owldimoon wrote: post #168

marcinzm wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ones who are good salesman do get takers. I don't really know why or how but they get them. Not the greatest engineers but also not bottom feeders. It's surreal. Granted it's usually people who don't realize their own worth or are naive about how much equity is actually going to be worth.

Hey, uh. So, I'm going to be graduating with a B.Eng soon. Any tips on how to realize my own worth? I have a tendency to let myself be taken advantage of... I mean, I'm currently doing a research internship at a computer vision lab at my uni for very little compensation (grant + departmental top-up). I told myself I was doing it "for the experience." I... I feel like I might be a candidate for the behavior you descri…

If the company is pre-ipo then look for top 10 venture capitalists as investors (Kleiner Perkins etc). This signals a company with good prospects! You do research - if you have to, pay the money to join CrunchBase - and figure out what each share is worth in the last funding round in dollars. Sometimes it's published in news articles and sometimes in Delaware Corp filings ($$$ to retrieve; crunchbase is easier). Their offer should be market if the (stock grant) x (last funding round price/share) + your base and bonus is average for a person at your level. Check levels.fyi. check Glassdoor salaries. If it's a unicorn check the university of bc unicorn report to see if there are ratchets or preferred shares (bad for you, a common stock grantee) in previous funding rounds. Then make a guess if they can IPO. 95% of silicon valley companies cannot. I picked one that was already getting ready to file an s-1 (IPO disclosure).

My biggest mistake as a new grad PhD was local cost of living. I wanted the prestige of working at a well known university. Turns out I didn't have the safety net or family wealth to work there.

Use an online calculator to estimate after-tax take home pay. Look at home price per square foot. A good offer nationally will pay 300 sq ft of real estate (take home pay) per year. My salary has varied from 110 to 1800 sq ft per year. I quit the 110 sq ft job after 2 years I just couldn't afford it; that is unsustainable! The 1800 sq ft job was in Phoenix; one house (new) per year! My current salary is ~250 sq ft a year which sucks nationally but is good for one of the most expensive cities in silicon valley (400+ sq ft just a few blocks away in a lesser school district); I am very Senior with 30 YOE.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#535

Post by lostgame » Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 1:13 AM UTC

wolco wrote: post #174

tracer4201 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does not reporting them to the labor board make you a better person? There’s more to this story than you’re telling us or it’s made up. This story doesn’t add up.

Who said he didn't? Him not going through that process doesn't make him a liar either. The fear of being blackballed or being a shy person or the experience of knowing what a waste of time it is are all valid reasons not to.

First off, I’m a she. :P

Second off - I am the type of individual who believes karma will come back to people. I have a very very comfortable position at the moment somewhere else and I personally just don’t want to stir up any trouble.

I’ve been through enough in the past year, from sexual assault to the passing of my mother, to add the trauma of lawyers chasing after me for an HN comment to boot.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#536

Post by honkycat » Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 1:15 AM UTC

I've been seeing this a LOT lately. There is plenty of work out there, but some of the offers I have been seeing are PATHETIC.

Check out this job posting: metaltoad dot bamboohr.com/jobs/view.php?id=103

> 90k max salary

> 9 years of industry experience

Totally clueless. Good luck with that.

Recently talked to a certain Beaverton, Oregon based shoe company. APPARENTLY, they hire a lot of their new hires as "contractors" and dangle the "full time" carrot in front of their face for a year. Swear up and down you are not a second class citizen... except you can't use the gym. Or go to the holiday party or use a lot of their facilities. And your badge is a different color.

Yeah, go sell that to someone else. Good luck finding a competent engineer.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#537

Post by around_here » Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 1:16 AM UTC

throwaway9980 wrote: post #343

rubicon33 wrote: post #208

I feel like a broken record, but I'm going to say it anyways. There is NOT a shortage of software developers. That myth was developed by big tech, and pushed all the way up the ladder, to the top of government. The goal? Reduce labor costs. Big tech has always been 1 step ahead of the employee, just like coal, and metal working was. They saw the huge need for developers and realized their costs would increase unless…

I’m so tired of feeling constantly at war with the industry to justify my own existence. The business people desperately need you but they hate you for what they have to pay. They’re always thinking what if? What if we could outsource this to some magic 3rd world slave mine? What if we could hire some recent graduates or interns instead? What if we could get someone on an H1B and chain them to the desk? It’s the natu…

Or you could fight for a strong socialist state and recognize that this whole article supports the labour theory of value. Especially when the other option aside becoming an oppressor is to build stronger walls around your slightly nicer gated community.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#538

Post by duxup » Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 1:16 AM UTC

samhh wrote: post #420

digianarchist wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happens on Hired.com all the time. Company makes an offer that meets your expectation. Phone interview comes to an end and then HR say "Actually we want you to move on salary before proceeding" and that's if you are lucky. I finished an interview in London, UK and they start umming and ahing over a measly five grand. It happened in Toronto too last year.

I was put in touch with a business by a recruiter. I stated my salary expectations, received the typical "that's a little high..." from the recruiter; as per usual, the offers I received justified my stance. They offered me 15% below what I wanted alongside a very uninspiring business in advertising. I was honest and said I was interviewing elsewhere and wasn't about to accept that offer quickly, though it wasn't off…

5k... and god knows how much lost productivity. That's just penny wise and pound foolish... but also IMO a bad sign if that is how they make decisions.

After the housing bubble burst I decided it was time to buy a new house. I made an offer on a house and we went back and forth but we hit the ceiling I was willing to pay so we went our separate ways.

After the seller had an agreement with two other families fall through they called me 9 months later asking if I was interested. I went back to my first offer from the start and told them I'd close in two weeks. Deal was done.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#539

Post by rafiki6 » Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 1:17 AM UTC

areyouseriousxx wrote: post #43

burtonator wrote: post #5

I had a recruiter call me a year ago with what sounded like a really amazing offer. Working for a well funded startup on a problem in which I happen to be a domain expert. They're aren't many expects in my field with my background and skill set and they said the right things to get me to interview (compensation won't be a concern). Anyway... Went in for 4-5 interviews. Took me about 10 hours in total to interview wit…

I find it strange, as software developers, that we discuss the effects on automation all the time, but no one seems to understand that automation has made searching for new employees incredibly inexpensive and efficient compared to the past. So in technical roles there are a lot of companies that are always hiring. Recruiters work for free until they find you someone and placing job listings online is so inexpensive…

I don't totally buy this argument. It's not cheap to hire. They might have increased the number of candidates in the pipeline sure, but I don't think the turnaround time to hire is any less. Also, there's the paradox of choice. The more candidates you have, the harder it is to hire. You actually need to apply filters to reduce the overall quantity you will pick from.

Re: We Don't Have a Talent Shortage. We Have a Sucker Shortage

#540

Post by externalreality » Sun, Apr 21, 2019, 1:17 AM UTC

marcinzm wrote: post #469

jarsin wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll never understand why these companies are letting inexperienced employees take any part in interviewing people with significantly more experience. If I owned a company I would never let some inexperienced fresh grad interview a senior engineer. They are letting some kid take part in one of the most important parts of their business. It's yet another area of software development hiring where all logic and reason h…

I find perceptive junior employees extremely useful in judging candidates. The way people act with someone they perceive as inferior is very telling about their personality and how they'll work with others. People are in my experience a lot more likely to drop their guard and show their true selves when they think no one important is watching. Soft skills matter and someone senior is both capable of providing great v…

That belief can be true, but its not enough to make me want to have a guy 2 years in interviewing candidates. I wouldn't want experienced developers walking away.