Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#531

Post by brokenmachine » Fri, Feb 01, 2019, 2:28 AM UTC

lwhi wrote: post #440

askafriend wrote: post #43

Let’s say you’re using a Google API like Maps, and you violate terms by snapshotting sections of their maps and storing them on your severs so you can serve static maps without making API calls. They’d shut down your API access immediately Google and Facebook both knew the terms. They both knew that the Enterprise Distribution Program was for internal use only. They still put ads out in the wild to recruit regular co…

All is fair in love and war? Things are obviously getting a bit ridiculous. Part of me thinks that something awful is going to have to happen before society stops these companies from pursuing everything they feel they need to. Hopefully it won't be too late when that realisation becomes crystal clear to the majority.

This is what I think as well. Every day we hear about these companies doing scummy stuff to get more and more user data.

I am hoping for a massive leak/scandal/Snowden moment when they finally cross the line and something happens that the lobotomized masses actually care about and cannot ignore.

Hopefully we end up with some sane legislation about how much mass surveillance of citizens by private companies is ok.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#532

Post by josho » Fri, Feb 01, 2019, 2:30 AM UTC

gojomo wrote: post #335

katabatic wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying a random consumer $20 does not make them a contractor. Do you think they all got 1099s?

1099s are only required if more than $600 is paid in a year. You are a "contractor" if you are providing services under a contract. A contract exists whenever there is a definitive agreement to exchange valuable considerations – even in the absence of a written, signed contract. But the sign-up for these apps might have included an explicit "signing" phase! (It's even possible that FB/Google asked for participants' S…

Apply some common sense here. A contractor charges money for their time. $20/mth is what I’ve read they were paid. That means anything more than 2 hours of work is breaking minimum wage laws.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#533

Post by chris_wot » Fri, Feb 01, 2019, 2:35 AM UTC

xd1936 wrote: post #445

benologist wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything Google should be grateful Apple's support isn't as deliberately-shit as their own fake support system, they may yet resolve this instead of being banned for life.

Company-on-company support is an entirely different thing from customer support. These are developers with direct lines to one another. Google isn't filing a support ticket at an Apple Store.

Tell that to GSuite customers. The service can be... spotty.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#534

Post by manigandham » Fri, Feb 01, 2019, 2:35 AM UTC

flukus wrote: post #519

manigandham wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think there's a difference between a person buying an Apple device and Google working with Apple to run software on their devices?

Yes, google has no excuse not to know better. They did know better in fact, it's a selling point of their competing product. Corporations their size will typically run anything remotely important in house on their own machines so that they have control over it for exactly this sort of reason. Failing that they'll put contracts in place that specify notification periods and remediation steps so that the rug can't be p…

I think you're mistaking what happened here. Google apparently broke the TOS which led to this issue.

This isn't a single person choosing differently. Employees and consumers buy and use iphones and Google has no choice in avoiding them. Doing so will only hurt their business, and they don't exactly have the leverage to demand whatever APIs and access they want.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#535

Post by aout » Fri, Feb 01, 2019, 2:35 AM UTC

blhack wrote: post #214

askafriend wrote: post #43

Let’s say you’re using a Google API like Maps, and you violate terms by snapshotting sections of their maps and storing them on your severs so you can serve static maps without making API calls. They’d shut down your API access immediately Google and Facebook both knew the terms. They both knew that the Enterprise Distribution Program was for internal use only. They still put ads out in the wild to recruit regular co…

Because lots of people still think that if you own a piece of hardware, you should be able to run whatever code you want on it.

The thing is: my mother bought an Apple device not to think about data, security, backups and all these "InternetS" things. She doesn't even know what hardware is. If she did, she might have bought an Android phone or something else :)

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#536

Post by Gorbzel » Fri, Feb 01, 2019, 2:39 AM UTC

chii wrote: post #499

politician wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you run your own firmware on the baseband processor?

The question isn't "do you", but "could you"? And atm, you couldn't on a locked down device.

> You can’t do that on any modern smartphone with the UX most have come to expect of their devices.

FTFY

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#537

Post by FakeComments » Fri, Feb 01, 2019, 2:46 AM UTC

matwood wrote: post #160

FakeComments wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My model of it: It will cost $500 to ditch Apple and replace them; there’s a 10% chance I will have to switch before I’d make my next purchase anyway; and Apple has to date saved me over $50 in frustration via their control of the ecosystem. So I’m willing to ride it out and see what happens.

There is really nothing to ride out. I think it's rather refreshing that Apple followed the rules they set forth even when it was large companies breaking them. I would have more issue if Apple shutdown the lone developer, and then did nothing when FB/Google did the exact same thing. With the above said, we can certainly discuss if Apple should use/have this ability at all. But, IMO it is a different discussion.

> I think it's rather refreshing that Apple followed the rules they set forth even when it was large companies breaking them.

This kind of behavior from executives[0] is precisely why I invested in Apple products in the first place — why I took the risk at all.

I meant that I don’t see this as any reason to get out, from a pure “well, what if they abuse their power?” perspective: the risk is low, given the way they’ve acted until now, and the total possible cost is reasonably bounded — I’ve already had enough upside to eclipse the risk weighted cost, this was a good investment.

So why would I even worry about it until something bad did happen? The homo economis answer is to let your bet ride, until the point you were going to re-evaluate anyway, when buying a new phone.

[0] There is approximately 0% chance Google and Facebook were kicked out of dev programs without running it by senior executives.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#538

Post by ddtaylor » Fri, Feb 01, 2019, 2:47 AM UTC

burtonator wrote: post #511

ChuckMcM wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well put. It is an interesting salvo in what I've started thinking of as the "data war." All three companies have a huge asset in data collection capability, and preventing the others from exploiting it is only the first skirmish among them. It will be interesting to see if Google offers to pay additional monies to Apple in order to "restore" this pipeline, and whether or not Apple will agree. In one sense, Apple alr…

Data wars is an understatement. Facebook is AMAZINGLY litigious on its data. Do this. Create a fake company and say you wrote a spider to index Facebook public profile data and that you have like say 100GB .... Watch how fast you get sued by Facebook. Mind you this is public data that EVERYONE can see...

> Do this ... get sued by Facebook.

"It's a bold strategy, Cotton, let's see if it pays off for him"

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#539

Post by berbec » Fri, Feb 01, 2019, 2:48 AM UTC

tomschwiha wrote: post #61

berbec wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe Google and Apple's "decision is final" bots can work it out between them.

I'd love to see the Google AI [1] automatically calling Apple customer support "Hello there my app is not starting. May you help me please?". Is this the achievement of machine learning and speech recognition? [1] https://youtu.be/pKVppdt_-B4

Hall of mirrors tech support?

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#540

Post by eanzenberg » Fri, Feb 01, 2019, 2:49 AM UTC

twoodfin wrote: post #500

eanzenberg wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> In one sense, Apple already gives up a data feed by sending search queries to Google. Apple does this under protest. Their top search queries are served through siri lately, and the hope is siri will replace all search so they won't need to utilize google anymore.

Not under protest, but for profit. The current figures are not public, but Google pays billions annually to Apple to remain the default search engine on iOS.

Do you think aapl needs google's "billions"? No, they're making way more money selling "privacy" and building a solid search engine to replace google is high priority for them.