Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#131

Post by ChuckMcM » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:09 PM UTC

askafriend wrote: post #43

Let’s say you’re using a Google API like Maps, and you violate terms by snapshotting sections of their maps and storing them on your severs so you can serve static maps without making API calls. They’d shut down your API access immediately Google and Facebook both knew the terms. They both knew that the Enterprise Distribution Program was for internal use only. They still put ads out in the wild to recruit regular co…

Well put.

It is an interesting salvo in what I've started thinking of as the "data war." All three companies have a huge asset in data collection capability, and preventing the others from exploiting it is only the first skirmish among them.

It will be interesting to see if Google offers to pay additional monies to Apple in order to "restore" this pipeline, and whether or not Apple will agree. In one sense, Apple already gives up a data feed by sending search queries to Google.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#132

Post by zapzupnz » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:10 PM UTC

johnsea wrote: post #103

_bxg1 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I read that article. It was a pretty bad take. Apple isn't "Thanos-snapping", it's enforcing its own terms of use which are very clearly laid out. Both Facebook and Google knowingly breached those terms, and they got caught. That's all there is to it.

Apple should not have the right to enforce those conditions to begin with. Same as they should not be allowed to kick out apps from their whole platform on a whim. Inacceptable. Such a company should not be allowed to do business in EU. Much worse than what happened with Microsoft in the 90ties.

Why should they not have the right to enforce the terms of their own service? They own it, the operate it. It's theirs to do with as they wish.

Your comment might make sense of Apple were some sort of government entity, but it isn't; it was completely Facebook and Google's decision to abide by Apple's terms and conditions, something that will have been pored over by legal team upon legal team. This is not something Facebook or Google will have entered into lightly, and yet they explicitly chose to break the terms and conditions.

If I run a restaurant and one of the house rules is that you're not allowed to harass my staff and make the dining experience unpleasant for other customers, and you do that, of course I'm well within my rights to throw you out.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#133

Post by kodablah » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:10 PM UTC

zapzupnz wrote: post #119

nostrademons wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android has 85% of the worldwide smartphone market. Apple doesn't exactly have the upper hand in the relationship, but they have enough leverage to make it sting if they decide not to cooperate and to force a reasonable settlement. In my mind, a reasonable settlement includes not installing spyware on users' iPhones through the enterprise development program, so it looks like they're doing precisely that.

> Android has 85% of the worldwide smartphone market I think a mistake to make here is thinking that Apple gives a toss.

In fact, one could reasonably say Apple actively tries not to obtain too large of a market percentage to avoid laws affecting monopolies.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#134

Post by the_duke » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:10 PM UTC

gorkish wrote: post #74

What I want to know is why these companies are using the same cert to sign apps with widely differing uses and security profiles. It seems to me that they should have a number of enterprise signing certs for each use case such as internal beta, external beta, internal utility, external utility, whatever. If the companies are signing all of their apps under the same cert then it's kind of on them for being stupid to s…

That was probably on purpose: the scrutiny for a Facebook enterprise account with maybe dozens of internal apps will be much lower than for a weird account which has only one or two apps but a lot of installs.

Easier to hide the rule-breaking app in a swarm of legitimate ones.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#135

Post by imagiko » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:10 PM UTC

> Apple’s move to block Google’s developer certificate comes just a day after Google disabled its Screenwise Meter app following press coverage

So Apple got to know it's terms are being violated after the press attention? Did they already know/is there a way they can detect this is happening? If not, then there could certainly be smaller players who have been routinely abusing this contract? I am trying to understand if Apple knew of this beforehand and are trying to avoid a PR disaster, or were caught off guard(which is scarier imo).

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#136

Post by zepto » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:10 PM UTC

gwbas1c wrote: post #115

askafriend wrote: post #43

Let’s say you’re using a Google API like Maps, and you violate terms by snapshotting sections of their maps and storing them on your severs so you can serve static maps without making API calls. They’d shut down your API access immediately Google and Facebook both knew the terms. They both knew that the Enterprise Distribution Program was for internal use only. They still put ads out in the wild to recruit regular co…

Is it really clear? Are the people they were paying technically Google and Facebook employees / contractors?

Child labor?

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#137

Post by gigatexal » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:10 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #110

jdietrich wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth bearing in mind that Google pay Apple billions of dollars a year to be the default search engine on iOS. To my eyes, Apple clearly have the upper hand in this relationship. https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3063669/google-is-...

Android has 85% of the worldwide smartphone market. Apple doesn't exactly have the upper hand in the relationship, but they have enough leverage to make it sting if they decide not to cooperate and to force a reasonable settlement. In my mind, a reasonable settlement includes not installing spyware on users' iPhones through the enterprise development program, so it looks like they're doing precisely that.

Something like 90%+ of the profit from smartphones goes to Apple — if that’s not the upper hand then I don’t know what is. Apple makes profit. Google has a legion of devices with incentives to keep insecure so they can monitor and harvest the data to both serve and sell ads.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#138

Post by evgen » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:10 PM UTC

gorkish wrote: post #74

What I want to know is why these companies are using the same cert to sign apps with widely differing uses and security profiles. It seems to me that they should have a number of enterprise signing certs for each use case such as internal beta, external beta, internal utility, external utility, whatever. If the companies are signing all of their apps under the same cert then it's kind of on them for being stupid to s…

There are terms and conditions that apply to the enterprise cert which are different than those of the standard developer cert. Some of the conditions are relaxed (e.g. wrt the lack of oversight on what you are pushing to your enterprise users) but your enterprise only gets one cert that covers all apps you distribute with these relaxed terms and conditions. If one of your developers pisses in the pool by using the cert to distribute an app outside of the enterprise, particularly an app that violates app store policies and therefore could only be distributed via the enterprise cert, then your cert gets yanked.

This revocation only applies to the apps that are signed with the enterprise cert, so, for example, the Facebook app or Google Maps app in the app store are not affected.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#139

Post by module0000 » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:11 PM UTC

johnsea wrote: post #103

_bxg1 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I read that article. It was a pretty bad take. Apple isn't "Thanos-snapping", it's enforcing its own terms of use which are very clearly laid out. Both Facebook and Google knowingly breached those terms, and they got caught. That's all there is to it.

Apple should not have the right to enforce those conditions to begin with. Same as they should not be allowed to kick out apps from their whole platform on a whim. Inacceptable. Such a company should not be allowed to do business in EU. Much worse than what happened with Microsoft in the 90ties.

>> Apple should not have the right to enforce those conditions to begin with

Apple is not a state-owned company. They can do whatever they like, and you can choose to support them by purchasing their stock and/or their products. You can choose not to support them by purchasing neither their stock or their products.

There are several federal and state laws that define what they "can not do", and this isn't one of them. Why should a business owner(s) "not have the right" to run their business any way they see fit, so long as they do not violate the law?

Your analogy to MS doesn't hold water - MS was told not to do something by a governing authority, and they did it anyway. The governing authority stepped in and enforced their rules - nothing out of the ordinary there.

Re: Apple blocks Google from running its internal iOS apps

#140

Post by nahzgah » Thu, Jan 31, 2019, 10:11 PM UTC

askafriend wrote: post #43

Let’s say you’re using a Google API like Maps, and you violate terms by snapshotting sections of their maps and storing them on your severs so you can serve static maps without making API calls. They’d shut down your API access immediately Google and Facebook both knew the terms. They both knew that the Enterprise Distribution Program was for internal use only. They still put ads out in the wild to recruit regular co…

>I don’t understand people who are acting offended that Apple is enforcing the clear terms of service it laid out.

I don't understand why they were so happy when this happened to Facebook but now they are offended because it happened to Google.

Oh wait, yes I do understand why. o:-)