Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA • Hacker News Board

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#531

Post by fencepost » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 8:38 PM UTC

syshum wrote: post #360

monk_e_boy wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Step 2. Stop Diverting Police Resources to enforcing laws > on what consenting Adults do on their own time (both > Prostitution and Drugs) But society has rules, it's the grey areas that are always going to be in contention. I'm sure you want the police and laws there to protect children from sexual exploitation. The same with drugs, you don't want smack and cocaine being sold in Boots. So there has to be a law, an…

>I'm sure you want the police and laws there to protect children from sexual exploitation. Which is why I clearly said ADULT in my response. We protect children from all manner of things because their brains have not formed to the point where we as a society believe they can make rational choices for themselves However if we are going to have a free society at some point you become an adult, at which point I do not b…

>>The same with drugs, you don't want smack and cocaine being sold in Boots.

>Not sure what a boot is,

Boots is a chain of pharmacies (also "health and beauty") stores in the UK. Probably pretty comparable to the US Walgreens or CVS chains.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#532

Post by rmrm » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 8:46 PM UTC

erikpukinskis wrote: post #436

rmrm wrote: post #428

I find a somewhat irresolvable issue on the liberal viewpoint of female sexuality and using sex to sell things (or selling sex directly) I see a lot of push back and negativity towards things like "booth babes" and other models that are employed to use their sexuality to help sell something. And I dont really argue with that, from a consumer angle. But I do also hear and feel for those models, who likely rightly say,…

In this case the typical liberal and the radical liberal are split, much as with trans identity. To sum it up with too broad of a brush, liberal (mainstream) feminists think sex work is positive, and that only coercion to sex should be criminalized. Radical feminists see sex “work” as an extreme outlier amongst sex trafficking which by their measure constitutes the vast majority of the sex trade. They would consider…

Curious based on this comment what you see as the rift in trans identity, as I also see unresolved opinions there.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#533

Post by cookiecaper » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 8:50 PM UTC

parliament32 wrote: post #466

cookiecaper wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet is pretty much as decentralized as things get while remaining accessible and available to the general public. There is room for some tweaking here, but even if a parallel "NewNet" rose up, it'd come to suffer the same set of problems. "Decentralized", "peer-to-peer", and "distributed" are not just magic words that make the whole world better. Consider BitTorrent as a case study. Probably the largest "dec…

>Probably the largest "decentralized" tech success story in internet history ... and it depends on a central core of pre-baked trackers, safe DHT bootstrap nodes, and search engines to be usable. I get the feeling you're not very involved in the private tracker community.

I've been using private trackers since OiNK was small. I still tend my HDBits account, which is over 10 years old at this point.

Private torrents are even more susceptible to these problems than public torrents, for several reasons.

a) They have the private flag set instructing the client not to use DHT to find peers.

b) They have the user's token embedded directly in the torrent, making it unsafe to share the file. Stripping the token will make it safe to share the file, but can't actually use it, since private trackers won't serve peers to a client without a token.

c) The torrents rely on a single tracker. Public torrents can throw on a handful of trackers that accept all comers, granting extra redundancy when outages occur.

d) Private trackers are the only search engines that index that specific corpus of data, and they typically have rules preventing users from sharing "internal" or "exclusive" content.

You're right that I'm no longer really "involved in the private tracker community" because I find the invite swapping tedious and mostly just stopped caring (didn't do anything to track down and get an account at "the next What.CD", for example), but private trackers only emphasize BitTorrent's dependencies on centralized brokers.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#534

Post by jrs235 » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 8:58 PM UTC

alsetmusic wrote: post #519

jrs235 wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. Thank you for the reply and insight. My point is, there are more people now openly able and willing to approach prostitutes who think "shut up and do what I say because I'm paying you [you low life worthless being who has to sell you body to make a living]". I'm not saying all people who use or are okay with prostitution think this, just that the supply of people who think this and act this way now find…

> My point is, there are more people now openly able and willing to approach prostitutes who think "shut up and do what I say because I'm paying you [you low life worthless being who has to sell you body to make a living]". What does this have to do with the discussion at hand? Between this comment and the one in which you attempted to feign credibility by making up a series of numbers that had no reference to back t…

>What does this have to do with the discussion at hand?

Someone said they heard legalization made conditions worse.

I was merely offering up an opinion of why that might be, if true.

Where are "closet" rude and mean people more likely to make degrading and derogatory comments? In public in front of others where their socially unacceptable behavior (food service employees) would be exposed? Or behind closed doors with a single individual where they can freely say shit making the other feel small and themselves feel big?

Sorry, I forgot anecdotes, metaphors, and hypotheses are not allowed on HN.

I'm truly sorry I wasn't able to effectively and clearly communicate how the dots connect.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#535

Post by amyjess » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 9:08 PM UTC

odammit wrote: post #156

delbel wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I screwed up and accidentally chambered two 12ga shells in my Remington 870, it was a potential dangerous accident but found video to help me safely un-f the situation. Also I found a "bug" that allowed me to shoot, under a strange condition, my 9mm when the safety was on. Found out what not to do on youtube to avoid that situation. Also couldn't figure out what this knob was on my 10/22, turns out its a critical fea…

Go start GunTube and make a buck or two! I was reading earlier today people are uploading their gun vids to PornHub. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-21/youtube-b...

> I was reading earlier today people are uploading their gun vids to PornHub.

Funny thing is, my coworker and I were talking about this earlier today... we ended up agreeing that it wouldn't be surprising at all if PornHub ends up creating an SFW site under a different name (VidHub?) for things like this.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#536

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 9:14 PM UTC

rmrm wrote: post #453

meri_dian wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue people have with "booth babes" is that it presupposes men will be the ones perusing the booths, or the ones whose attention is worth grabbing. There's nothing wrong with valuing someone for their good looks, but in a field like tech where we are trying to encourage women to participate more, using BB's at tech events is a reflection of the event organizers choosing to cater only to men, since it's m…

Cheerleaders would be another example. Is it sexual objectification to have scantily clad attractive women on the sidelines? Most probably. Is having not attractive scantily clad women on the sidelines the answer? No, probably not. Is getting rid of cheerleaders the answer? Maybe. Do a lot of girls and women like to be cheerleaders? Apparently. It seems like the fundamental issue is that men like to see scantily clad…

[deleted]

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#537

Post by throwitaway92U » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 9:16 PM UTC

gremlinsinc wrote: post #155

throwitaway92U wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using CL personals led me to a blind date with a Canadian 16 years ago. Still on that date :)

Did they kidnap you?

Did get swept off my feet, but never forced.

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#538

Post by hackbinary » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 9:24 PM UTC

ayemiller wrote: post #483

nathan_long wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think almost every vice would be less damaging to society if it was in the open. Polite society doesn't want to see sex work or drugs, but they still exist. Hiding them makes things much worse for the people directly involved. I understand what you're saying. However, compare sex work to slavery (which it often is). Nobody wants to be a slave. Some desperate people might agree to be enslaved to pay off a debt. Yo…

I would argue that the sea between "sex slavery" aaaand "sex worker" is just as vast as that between professional engineer and enslaved engineer. Again, polite society would have you think otherwise...

Please can we call sex workers pleasure technicians? A pleasure engineer should require a degree ...

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#539

Post by pmarreck » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 9:44 PM UTC

SeeDave wrote: post #117

DannyBee wrote: post #44

This is not surprising, but sad. Years ago, i was dragged (i was the only engineer in the local office) into a whitehouse (or maybe it was state department, i can't remember) sponsored working group on online sex trafficking. The non-profits dedicated to fighting this, while seemingly well-intentioned, were completely and totally unwilling to see any other perspective or try to find shared ground. It was scorched ear…

In defense of the "scorched earth approach or nothing" folks: from my perspective... it's a completely and totally human response to faceless, blameless, unapproachable (from their perspective) perpetrators and facilitators of systematic abuse and exploitation of innocent and vulnerable people. If you've ever felt frustrated at an IVR system for routine tasks such as banking, restaurant reservations, canceling a gym…

The scorched earth mentality says that if you're not in favor of gun-banning, you're pro-murder. If you're not in favor of policing all of your user-generated content instantaneously and at significant cost, then you are pro-childporn and pro-child-sexual-exploitation. When in fact, nothing could be further from the truth.

The form of this is a false equivalency (or perhaps the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_composition): If you are pro-, then you are pro-

The upshot of this will be ZERO startups that deal in user-generated content simply because they cannot afford the manpower or the liability. Which is a pretty bad consequence, IMHO.

This also creates a law open to abuse: If you have a corporate enemy that permits user-generated content, simply anonymously post some objectionable content to their site, take a screenshot, and then alert the authorities with the URL and screenshot. It's like SWATting, except on a whole 'nother level!

Is Giphy really to blame in this fiasco? How are they somehow more to blame than the person who actually posted this? (as they would be, after this law goes into effect) https://mashable.com/2018/03/10/snapchat-instagram-giphy-rac...

Re: Craigslist takes personals sections offline in response to FOSTA

#540

Post by pmarreck » Fri, Mar 23, 2018, 9:54 PM UTC

edraferi wrote: post #368

anigbrowl wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great, like the trade is going to suddenly end. All they've achieved is 'out of sight, out of mind.' I'm quite annoyed about this, both because it affects numerous friends of mine who are sex workers and are now scrambling to find alternatives to working on the street, where they're far less safe, and on a more pedestrian level because I met my wife on a Craigslist date years ago. Life is too short to make excuses fo…

I've been thinking about this a lot this morning. I think almost every vice would be less damaging to society if it was in the open. Polite society doesn't want to see sex work or drugs, but they still exist. Hiding them makes things much worse for the people directly involved. It's trafficked kids with broken immigration status who are more scared of the cops than their captors. It's drug addicts who OD on tainted d…

I'm with you. This is also basically the Portugal approach to drug control, which appears to be working. You think we would have learned with the experience from Prohibition to inform us... Guess not.