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What I Heard from Trump Supporters

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Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#531

Post by christophilus »

sseagull wrote: post #241
rdl wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who are "2A voters" don't even consider the status quo to be acceptable -- they want HPA (removal of suppressors from NFA); probably a removal of SBR/SBS (treat them like handguns), repeal of Hughes and 922(r), and potentially nationwide reciprocity and potentially pre-emption. They also want reinforcement in SCOTUS decisions of 2A as an "individual right" vs. a "collective right" (which is why I don't support…

I'm pretty liberal and (used to be) a gun owner. I can see supporting those things (I personally would like nationwide reciprocity [0]). It's just very hard for me to understand how this issue (or others like abortion) would be above all others. You are voting for a government with a tremendous amount of power and responsibility (military and defense, infrastructure, running a huge economy, world trade, healthcare, e…

My mom voted for Trump because of the abortion issue. The reason it's above all others in her mind is that she literally views it the way we view the holocaust. (e.g. "Millions of people have died because of pro-choice policies.")

So, whether or not you agree with her, you can see that there is some logic to making that issue a high priority if she views it that way. "Hitler's really got a great economic package, has better public experience than his opponent, is better all across the board, and is in favor of the extermination of a bunch of helpless people."

In my mom's case, she'd be Democrat, except for this one issue. She's pro Syrian refugee, pro immigration, against capital punishment, etc.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#532

Post by gd1 »

2pointsomone wrote: post #109

I still still still, for the life of me, don't understand why a large number of people have labelled Hillary "corrupt". Someone please explain? (am I naive to believe that having a private email server wasn't much of an offense, she was just doing her job in the Benghazi case, and that the Clinton Foundation has only ever meant to do good?)

Try the cattle/soybean futures trading for starters. Pretty much the most open and shut case of mirror-trading bribe laundering you'll ever see.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#533

Post by str33t_punk »

sedachv wrote: post #329
str33t_punk wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a useless and unhelpful comment? This whole article was about figuring out why people voted for Trump so it doesn't happen again. Moral of the story was that comments like your's have drove a lot towards Trump. Some one makes a comment about why they support Trump, contributing to the article, and you immediately jump to an -ism that will probably push them farther towards that side. Do you not realize that you…

How is it useless and unhelpful? I am pointing out that people voted for Trump because they lack basic empathy and understanding towards other people's real problems. I like recreational shooting and was an NRA member for two years, enough to develop a serious dislike of 2nd amendment obsessives. Prioritizing your hobby over women's rights is disgusting.

And Conservatives would say the same thing! 'Liberals are prioritizing where people use the bathrooms over the real problem of islamic terrorism . Prioritizing pet issues over national security is disgusting!' Insulting people over whatever issues they decide to find important does nothing but drive them away from the issue you think they should support instead. Empathy and understanding need to be developed -- its like Respect, it is earned. While we hope people have these traits, unfortunately they don't. Insulting will reduce empathy. 'Why should I care about X? They are all assholes anyways. Fuck em'. And this is what happened with the election.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#534

Post by naravara »

chubot wrote: post #467
naravara wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes, this was in the feedback: >“I’d love to see one-tenth of the outrage about the state of our lives out here that you have for Muslims from another country. You have no idea what our lives are like.” The Democrats had a debate in Flint about the water crisis where they discussed what to do about it and how the country's infrastructure got there. Meanwhile Donald's fans were screaming "TEN FEET HIGHER!" If GOPers…

Thanks for your viewpoint. I agree there is something odd here. One lesson from this election is how big an influence the media has on politics, and I see this as a huge problem. Honestly it is beyond me why health care reform was so controversial. It seems that Obamacare is flawed, but would be less so if there wasn't so much resistance to it. I don't think it should be a partisan issue but somehow it turned out to…

>One lesson from this election is how big an influence the media has on politics, and I see this as a huge problem.

Oh that's been a lesson for a while. I'm old enough to dimly remember the run-up to the first Gulf War and the level of discourse was generally much more thoughtful. You had your partisan hacks like Bob Novak and other Heritage Foundation tools, but they were embedded within a media-world that still took itself somewhat seriously and had resigned itself to being staid and boring. At one point I remember someone quoted Thucydides and discussed various ideas about Just War theory from Aristotle to Michael Walzer and applied it to the present situation. And this was on a major news network!

People make a big deal about "fake news on the internet" but the truth is, the reason the fake news had impact is because the "real news' long ago gave up any claims to credibility to be calling out the fake news. They've been acting as platforms for partisan hacks like Sean Hannity and Bob Novak for too long for anyone to put trust in them.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#535

Post by intended »

boona wrote: post #315
jstimpfle wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of the "CO2->Global Warming->Catastrophe" thing is it that you don't buy? What is "false consensus"? Are you in a position to judge the conclusions supported by a vast majority (that's only my perception, but how likely is it to be completely mistaken?) of experts? What brings you to the conclusion that global warming could be a hoax? Do you have a reason for not trusting the experts? Who could be intereste…

Scott Adams, the creator of Dilbert, wrote an interesting piece on this topic. http://blog.dilbert.com/post/154082416051/the-non-expert-pro...

He starts out by saying that "he totally believes the scientific consensus"

And then begins to undermine it by effectively saying "well, so what? If there is a problem with global warming, we will just do something to scrub the air clean."

While also dumping a laundry list of canards and debunked arguments about climate deniers.

For example:

> 1. A theory has been “adjusted” in the past to maintain the conclusion even though the data has changed. For example, “Global warming” evolved to “climate change” because the models didn’t show universal warming.

Really?? Climate change? Changing the name is a big deal? And that to after politicians and their media managers helped force that change ?

And inherent in this statement is a full assault and repudiation of science and scientifists.

If science updates their models and the conclusions stay the same, then it improves confidence.

That science.

What Adams ends up implying is that liars cheat and fudge their data, and that's when their results stay the same. HMMMM, suspicious.

> 3. The models require human judgement to decide how variables should be treated. This allows humans to “tune” the output to a desired end. This is the case with climate science models.

Shocking ply this is the case with many mathematical and statistical models. You expect trained and expert scientists to do this and do it well.

That's the whole damn point.

> 4. There is a severe social or economic penalty for having the “wrong” opinion in the field. As I already said, I agree with the consensus of climate scientists because saying otherwise in public would be social and career suicide for me even as a cartoonist. Imagine how much worse the pressure would be if science was my career.

Again, the Fox News-esque assassination of science and scientists continue. The reason people follow the consensus is becusse they are afraid.

5. There are so many variables that can be measured – and so many that can be ignored – that you can produce any result you want by choosing what to measure and what to ignore. Our measurement sensors do not cover all locations on earth, from the upper atmosphere to the bottom of the ocean, so we have the option to use the measurements that fit our predictions while discounting the rest.

....

To top it off, he concludes with "so I hold both positions. If it turns out it was a disaster, i get to say i believes science. If it's not a disaster I get to say I told you so ".

This is not logic, this is mood manipulation.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#536

Post by SnowFace »

cr0sh wrote: post #460
SnowFace wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me where Trump is racist. Show me just one example.

I googled "trump racist comments" - and got a slew of articles. Here is but one from Fortune: http://fortune.com/2016/06/07/donald-trump-racism-quotes/ "A well-educated black has a tremendous advantage" "Black guys counting my money! I hate it" "Least racist person on earth" There's three. You can find more. As far as the last one, one might argue "How is that racist?" Guess what - when you aren't racist, you don't n…

> "A well-educated black has a tremendous advantage"

How is that racist? Isn't that the point of affirmative action?

> "Black guys counting my money! I hate it"

Says a guy that Trump fired. I'm skeptical, to say the least.

> "Least racist person on earth"

Doesn't sound very racist to me.

> Guess what - when you aren't racist, you don't need to declare it.

When you're constantly called a racist, then yes, you do need to declare it.

> Plus - that comment technically suggests that at a minimum, he admits that he's possibly just "a little" racist...

It doesn't, and this is playing word games. His communication style is to talk in extremes, and I'm sure he would have said "I'm the hugest non-racist there is" if it had the same ring to it.

Any more examples?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#537

Post by [deleted] »

leesalminen wrote: post #423
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but that market demand exists because they are outside the law. Keeping illegal immigrants here allows a permanent underclass which can be abused by companies in ways that American citizens can't. It allows a race to the bottom where only companies which hire illegal immigrants can lower the cost of their product to a competitive level. The only way to end this cycle is to stop allowing illegal immigrants to w…

So, in a way our President is actually standing up to the corporations and fighting for human rights?

[deleted]

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#538

Post by darkmouth »

digler999 wrote: post #512
darkmouth wrote: post #108

We are unwelcoming to people who are factually wrong. If you deny science, basic human rights, if you lack compassion for people who come from less fortunate countries, if you feel you're entitled to things others are not, then yes, I can proudly say silicon valley as well as other liberal enclaves are very unwelcoming to such people. Lastly, we do not, and will not welcome anyone who elects a man like trump just to…

> if you feel you're entitled to things others are not Why are you entitled to a comfortable apartment near your job while the waitress who served you lunch or the landscaping crew at the Googleplex have to commute from hours away or live in a squalid trailer park ? Guess it's their fault for not being software engineers too, isn't that right, Mr. Equality ?

Miss Equality ;)

I travel 2.5 hours for work.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#539

Post by austenallred »

meat_fist wrote: post #530
austenallred wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't think much about demographics either place. Maybe that's because I'm the majority (I think) in both places; I don't know. It doesn't enter my calculus. San Francisco is generally more accepting of almost everything, and I love that, but when it comes to political ideology I ironically find it intense, unaccepting and extreme. It feels like anything goes in SF, so long as you're not on the right polit…

My point was simply to illustrate that "I'd feel more comfortable talking about my views in the Deep Red" is a statement only a White (probably) Male would say.

Perhaps, but I honestly don't believe that's true. It feels like politics has become something beyond politics in San Francisco. It's not "people have different ways of viewing things, and boy do I think you're wrong," it's "if you think that _____ or voted for _____ you are my enemy."

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#540

Post by darkmouth »

puranjay wrote: post #291
darkmouth wrote: post #108

We are unwelcoming to people who are factually wrong. If you deny science, basic human rights, if you lack compassion for people who come from less fortunate countries, if you feel you're entitled to things others are not, then yes, I can proudly say silicon valley as well as other liberal enclaves are very unwelcoming to such people. Lastly, we do not, and will not welcome anyone who elects a man like trump just to…

> We are unwelcoming to people who are factually wrong. I'm amazed to see a comment like this on HN of all places. What's "fact" today can be false tomorrow. History is full of ample proof.

If it is wrong tomorrow, we won't use it. It is right today. And right now, what's right should be used, not what may or may not be right.
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