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Welcome, ACLU

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Re: Welcome, ACLU

#531

Post by angry-hacker »

koolba wrote: post #209

So when did YC decide to do this? Was it in the works for a while or purely knee jerk response to the past week?

When ever it's beneficial to them and makes them more money. If you believe otherwise, you're a fool. Too bad they didn't step up when Obama started to wiretap the whole world what is much bigger issue. They and their companies should have cut all the ties with the fascist government, but most likely knowingly let their companies to participate.

I don't support Trump, but Altman and PG lack balls, are cowards and hypocrites.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#532

Post by pdeuchler »

muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

Probably because top SV companies recruit PHDs from the Levant at an order of magnitude more than they recruit from inner city Chicago?

How is this not obvious to the people here on HN? How do the people on here who constantly get holier than thou about demographics in tech not see the obvious machinations? Seriously, look around your office right now and then ask yourself again why top tech companies care more about immigrants than other oppressed groups.

What do you think is more likely, that Google genuinely cares about the immigration of farmers from Libya, or that they have a couple physics PHDs from Iran driving huge amounts of search revenue?

Corporations don't have morality, they have profit motives. YC doesn't give a shit about immigrant rights any more than the unjust deaths of african americans around the US, they care about attracting certain demographics to apply as founders.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#533

Post by wtvanhest »

freehunter wrote: post #471
wtvanhest wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used the word 'mainly' because I understand that HN has always had some political conversation in the background. I have personally learned about immigration issues, digital privacy, etc. etc. on HN. Those are valuable things to understand, and I enjoyed reading about them. Now, it is clear that YC leadership has taken a highly liberal stand. I won't make a judgement on liberal or republican, but it feels more and…

Supporting civil rights is not taking a "highly liberal stand". Just because American politics has shifted to the extreme right doesn't mean everyone needs to shift with it or that people who were moderates yesterday are now extreme liberals. I would be very afraid of anyone who thinks that protecting the rights guaranteed by the Constitution is "highly liberal". You do realize that the ACUL has been known to defend…

I'm a supporter of the ACLU, my cousin even worked there for a bit. Regardless of your personal beliefs, it is clear that YC's involvement with the ACLU is a political decision which does not match their business model. They are even referencing the recent election and republican party's decisions as the reason they are doing it.

There were lots of civil liberties eroded during Obama's presidency, but YC & Sam Altman at no point in time stood up and said anything or did anything like they are doing now.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#534

Post by [deleted] »

cabalamat wrote: post #281
tghw wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's hardly their main focus. Go to https://www.aclu.org/ and click Issues. LGBT Rights are just one of 18 top level issues (many broken down into many more related issues). I love the EFF, but they don't cover voting rights, disability rights, immigration rights, racial justice, etc.

> racial justice According to https://www.aclu.org/issues/racial-justice/affirmative-actio... they support discrimination against white people: > Affirmative action is one of the most effective tools for redressing the injustices caused by our nation’s historic discrimination against people of color and women, and for leveling what has long been an uneven playing field. This is bad for two reasons 1. is is immoral in…

[deleted]

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#535

Post by wtf_is_up »

muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

Virtue signaling over poor Appalachian Americans or black-on-black violence is not very fashionable.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#536

Post by anigbrowl »

ihsw wrote: post #50
chickenfries wrote: post #16

Peter Thiel insists that the immigration EO is does not constitute a religious ban [1], but Rudy Giuliani says this is exactly what the President asked for [2] (Also, we heard him say as much many, many times). [1] http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanmac/2017/01/28/peter-thiel-s... [2] http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/316726-giuliani-t...

It's not just Peter Thiel but anyone of sound mind -- the top 5 countries by Muslim-majority population are not included. * Indonesia 204,847,000 (87.2%) * Pakistan 178,097,000 (96.4%) * India 172,245,158 (14.2%) * Bangladesh 145,312,000 (90%) * Nigeria 75,728,000 (47.9%) If Indonesia suddenly became plagued by radical Islamic terrorism then it would be on the list too. The seven countries targeted by the immigration…

Well there was that thing about Trump calling for a total Muslim ban a little over a yer ago: https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-...

Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on. [...]

It's entirely reasonable to consider a politician's stated aspirations as well as their more limited actions in office, since the latter are often incremental steps towards a larger goal.

Please don't argue but trying to bury people in irrelevant facts. That tactic is called a Gish Gallop and makes you look like you're arguing in bad faith. Considering the administration's on-again off-again relationship with basic concepts of truth and fact, nitpicking arguments are best avoided.

It cannot be that the administration gets to decide when to cite facts and figures or when to make sweeping and inaccurate generalizations; if critics are to be held to a different standard of truth from the administration, then we have a government that asserts exclusive domain over the notion of truth itself. Are you sure that's something you want to support?

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#537

Post by chrshawkes »

PeterisP wrote: post #195
muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

"Do Not Listen to What They Say, Look at What They Do" - simply treat it as evidence that yes, really, despite what some people might want, large parts of the society actually do care more about immigrants like the tech industry green card holders who got stuck in the airports than local homeless people or "people in West Virginia and Kentucky who have lost their jobs and got drenched in opiates". It's obvious that t…

I notice most non-liberal points of view get down-voted to oblivion in this circle jerk named Hacker News. Commence the down-voting of this comment please.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#538

Post by TheCoelacanth »

beaconstudios wrote: post #312
rqebmm wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that's because he's publicly backed Trump, who is as un-libertarian as you can get.

that depends entirely on whether you view a global job market as intrinsic to libertarianism. For nationalist libertarians, Trump's economic focus would presumably be a good thing. as far as I've seen, a global job market has resulted in more exploitation than prosperity. Most of the profit seems to go to international businesses that have little interest in giving back to their host nation in the form of jobs or tax…

Trump also want to bring back stop and frisk which is about as un-libertarian as you can get.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#539

Post by diyorgasms »

deskamess wrote: post #410
CydeWeys wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully it happens the other way around, no?

Hopefully not... YC needs to retain the inclusiveness. It should have the ability to disagree with civility. If PT is acting in a way that hurts YC's investments then I expect YC to have a civil discussion with him.

History shows that collaboration with fascists is without virtue. Fascist collaborators should not benefit from inclusiveness while trying to eliminate it.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#540

Post by aestetix »

tlb wrote: post #512
aestetix wrote: post #467

This would be a lot easier for me to digest if YC could ask their companies going forward to pledge to treat all user data as PII.

I'm interested in this idea, but I'm not sure exactly what to suggest that companies do. Can you recommend some guidelines on how to treat user data that will reduce the harm caused by the way startups currently treat user data?

Two immediate suggestions:

1. Use a Ulysses pact[1] explaining how data is and will be used. Assure users that the company won't turn into a data broker[2].

2. Either lobby local/state/federal government to create legal data protections, or publicly support existing efforts. Europe is not perfect, but the ECHR and German data protection laws are a fantastic model to follow.

There are a lot of more technical suggestions involving data sanitizing and security, but for a startup that just needs to get up to speed quickly, those are two suggestions that would go a long way. Leading by example might bring the entire industry forward in a positive way.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_pact

[2]https://www.technologyreview.com/s/601506/23andme-sells-data...

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