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The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

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Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#531

Post by SilasX »

stephenr wrote: post #215

I'm not quite sure I understand. Do Americans not look at what's coming from behind them before opening a slab of metal and glass a meter out the side of their cars? Kind of reminds me of when I first moved to Thailand. My (now) mother-in-law asked her daughter why I kept looking over my shoulder when driving her car, and why/if I couldn't use the side mirrors. She had literally never heard of nor understood the conc…

American here, remember being drilled pretty hard in Driver's Ed about "hey, if you're opening a door onto an active street, look first", and I follow it pretty religiously (or did when I drove on a regular basis). I'm guessing some people get careless and it shows up in the stats. Not sure what the Dutch reach adds -- if you can't remember to look, you probably can't remember to use your right hand either.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#532

Post by dpark »

michael_h wrote: post #520
dpark wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very uncommon in the United States. Probably 99% of driver training in the US is driving a family car with mom or dad in the passenger seat. Most people get very little and often no professional instruction. Certainly, when receiving professional instruction, the modified car with at least an extra brake is typical. It's just that most people never get much of this instruction.

From dmv.org: If you are under eighteen, states requiring driver's education from a professional driving school (with behind-the-wheel instruction): CA, DL, HI, ID, IA, KS, LA, MD, MA, MI, MN, MS, MT, NH, NJ, NM (waiver available), NY, NC, OH, PA, SC, TX, UT, VT, WA, WI, Require the course, but not professional, behind-the-wheel instruction: CT, GA, FL, IL, KY, ME, MO, ND, RI, VA, Professional instruction not require…

More common than I thought, then. Thanks.

Still a huge number of people get no training and even in states that require training, it seems pretty minimal. 6 hours of driving instruction in my current state (WA) doesn't seem like a lot.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#533

Post by developer2 »

dpark wrote: post #40
diamondo25 wrote: post #24

As a Dutch person, this is probably the cause of our parents always telling us to carefully open the door by looking first. And if you are not sure, open it a bit to see more. Also, in our license test, you'll have to learn the following rule: Getting out of the car, is just like turning the car, a special operation and you need to give everyone else priority so that your action will not cause problems. So take your…

This is far more believable than the claim that using the far hand will force you to turn 90 degrees inside the car and scan fully before getting out. It might serve as a good habit/reminder, but it's neither necessary nor sufficient to create this behavior. I think much of the US is unaware of how seriously some other countries take driver's training. Our standards are appallingly low.

Is it that hard to believe? The human brain is not a perfect system. We operate on autopilot when performing menial tasks. Exiting a car is absolutely a zero-effort task that is habitually performed without any thought involved. Reaching with the opposite hand naturally turns your head far enough that you're looking at your blind spot - or at least 80% of the head turn required. The point is you can consciously forget to check, but by opening your door this way you will hopefully - and quite likely - trigger your brain into remembering that you need to check.

Time and time again on Hacker News, intelligent people can't seem to understand that the average citizen is not a Hacker News visitor. You can try to rationalize that every driver must be capable of being consciously aware of what they are doing every single time they open their car door. You can believe that this behaviour should be testable and that we should revoke licenses from the 20-70% of drivers who would fail such a test. This is simply not the reality. Introducing a - ugh I can't think of a word related to "mnemonic", aka. a brain training exercise - that will hopefully result in more people opening their car doors safely, can only be a benefit to all.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#534

Post by carterehsmith »

Etheryte wrote: post #163
carterehsmith wrote: post #106

Perhaps we could add radars that block the door if there is a risk of dooring, either by a bike, or another car. The car manufacturers have just agreed to put collision mitigation systems in all cars (by 2020 or something), and that requires radars and cameras. Even better, some cars have radars in the back, too, to identify cross traffic & c. So, identifying potential dooring event as well, might be quite doable usi…

While this could prevent some of the accidents, I'm not sure if the sum effect would be better. Allow me to explain: According to Google, the average cycling speed is 15.5km/h and the average car length is 4.5m. Surely these will differ a lot from area to area, but they're good for a ballpark measure. This means it takes a cyclist about one second (4.5m / 15.5kmh = 1.05s) to pass a parked car. Even if you have a car…

> enough for the cyclist to either stop or change course

I proposed that the car door get blocked, no need for cyclist to do anything.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#535

Post by Thlom »

walshemj wrote: post #456
ralfn wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This focus on helmets is ridiculous, because you only have to types of bikes: 1. Death traps 2. Dutch bikes You want less people to die in traffic while riding a bike? Don't make a helmet mandatory. Make the dutch bike mandatory. Your bike needs to be heavy. You need to sit up straight. And if you stretch your legs you have to stand. Whenever i see the images of americans on rice bikes and mountain bikes in NYC, i to…

A little less "team Holland Bike Police" attitude please - I find those sit up and beg bikes unstable when riding at slow speed I felt much safer on a proper SWB MTB with proper rakes

Aren't you more in a begging position on a road bike?

:-)

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#536

Post by carterehsmith »

WillKirkby wrote: post #284
carterehsmith wrote: post #106

Perhaps we could add radars that block the door if there is a risk of dooring, either by a bike, or another car. The car manufacturers have just agreed to put collision mitigation systems in all cars (by 2020 or something), and that requires radars and cameras. Even better, some cars have radars in the back, too, to identify cross traffic & c. So, identifying potential dooring event as well, might be quite doable usi…

By blocking the door if you detect an oncoming cyclist, you've created a new problem. What if it false-positives? What if it false-positives and your car is on fire? What if hackers find some way to fool the sensor?

Good point.

In my mind, this is kind of similar to seat belts. In case of fire, you can get trapped IF you cannot undo the belt, which does happen, but not always.

What I would do is, provide initial resistance to opening the door; but if you keep pushing, it opens, just slower.

As for the hackers, they can also control your brakes etc, so hacking thing needs to be solved anyways. Note that by 2020 that needs to be solved for every car sold in States, due to the CMBS systems being mandatory by that date.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#537

Post by vacri »

hx87 wrote: post #475
vacri wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't like your cab driver? just open the door into the path of a bike.

Right, because the passenger in a cab is never responsible for their actions.

Any time you see "Want to control X? Make a different person legally responsible", it's likely to be a disaster of an idea.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#539

Post by waltruda »

Asooka wrote: post #240

We don't let people do drugs, so why do we let them ride bikes on roads? It's the exact same kind of self-harm, brought on by poor life choices. All the problems in the article can be solved simply by having everyone be in a large sturdy steel frame, i.e. a car. Cars are cheap safe convenient and easy to use, so why is everyone getting on these two wheeled death traps?

Funny how I have had almost the exact same thought for a long time. We do not let people carry guns, so why do we let people drive cars? Both are fatal weapons.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#540

Post by Tiktaalik »

robbrown451 wrote: post #107
Zanni wrote: post #51

The real answer is to get rid of street parking when you have a bike lane. They're incompatible. In fact, just get rid of street parking altogether. As a bicyclist, I've been doored. As a pedestrian, I find it difficult to see around parked cars to know if it's safe to cross the street in some locations. As a driver, I find it difficult to to see around parked cars to know if it's safe to enter the street AND I have…

I think that's pretty unrealistic, until we get car sharing and autonomous taxis and the like to a point where there just isn't a need for street parking.

Autonomous cars will still need to pull over to let off passengers, where they could come into conflict with bike lanes (taxis already dangerously pull into bike lanes to drop off passengers). There is still a need for explicitly separated bike lanes and parking spots for cars.

I'm excited for the advent of autonomous cars, but their introduction is not really going to solve any of the current problems with our road network.

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