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Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

andonlabs.com

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Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#521

Post by kaoD »

sfn42 wrote: post #409
nullbio wrote: post #400

Meanwhile, I can't even get Astra to consistently re-use the same font-size across all of my HTML page headings+subheadings. There's just no world where this actually results in a stable, respected business. It will be death by a thousand bad impressions, mistakes and oversights. Yeah, you can automate everything. That doesn't mean it's being done well. That's not to say this might not be something feasible in 2-3 ye…

> can't even get Astra to consistently re-use the same font-size across all of my HTML page headings+subheadings. This is just basic software engineering. DRY. Define the style in one place and reuse it. This is also why you need a human in the loop, you need to make these kinds of design decisions and tell it to do stuff like this. Otherwise you're just building a pile of trash and you'll keep having these dumb easi…

> Define the style in one place and reuse it.

If I had to guess, this is pure Tailwind rot.

Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#522

Post by lukan »

jabron wrote: post #512
lukan wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that is not what "people" in general mean, this is only what some people mean. Other people know there is no solving go with calculating, but using statistics to achieve the goal of becoming better at humans. And they are. (With a recent unexpected exception unlikely to be repeated more often)

I don't think people "in general" refer to games as "solved" or "not solved" at all. Among people who do, chess and go are definitely not referred to as (fully) solved.

"to have a chance against intelligent humans. Until it was solved."

But this was the original statement - so solved references "chance against intelligent humans". And this is clearly solved. No comment on that there cannot be better go engines, but no matter how painful it is, they beat the best humans. (And it was painful, they did cry)

Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#523

Post by jdiff »

fragmede wrote: post #358
SoftTalker wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another downside is that if the agent goes rogue on the payroll you'll have a lot of angry humans and possibly major legal problems also.

Embezzlement is much, much older than LLMs.

You can convict a human. What do you do when your LLM blows all your money on paperclips?

Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#524

Post by mrheosuper »

DonHopkins wrote: post #508
hangrybear666 wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well in my personal projects I write all code by hand because people relying on agents will have forgotten how to do their fucking job in 3 years and then it will be appreciated to have people understanding what they're actually doing. That being said, in my job ai writes the code just because it's way faster.

Your "fucking job in 3 years" will be very different, and if you don't learn how to do it in time, you won't still have a job in the computer industry. Pick an industry where you can stop learning new things once you're out of school, because the computer industry is not one of them and never has been. My fucking job used to be writing 6502 assembly language on an Apple ][, and I loved it, but I hope I've forgotten e…

you said like the only reason you can't learn new stuff is because of old stuff taking room. Do we even run out of memory?

Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#525

Post by DonHopkins »

mrheosuper wrote: post #524
DonHopkins wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your "fucking job in 3 years" will be very different, and if you don't learn how to do it in time, you won't still have a job in the computer industry. Pick an industry where you can stop learning new things once you're out of school, because the computer industry is not one of them and never has been. My fucking job used to be writing 6502 assembly language on an Apple ][, and I loved it, but I hope I've forgotten e…

you said like the only reason you can't learn new stuff is because of old stuff taking room. Do we even run out of memory?

I used to have the answer to that, but I forgot to write it down...

Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#526

Post by whstl »

pjc50 wrote: post #509
whstl wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After seeing a crazy amount of non-programmers, sometimes with 10 years of experience, basically turning off their brains and offloading most their thinking to some LLM and turning their days into "please check this product and tell me what I should do next", I don't see why not. I've seen: designers, performance marketers, data scientists, SEO experts, product managers, engineering managers, CRM expert, all using it…

Isn't that .. what people were told to do? To use AI for as much of their job as possible?

This is absolutely true, but even the most charitable interpretation of “maximize the use of AI” doesn’t include “do nothing but prompt and you’ll keep your job”.

One can argue semantics and fairness all day long, but if an employee is adding no value to their $90 Claude signature, then they’re gonna get fired as soon as someone realizes. :/

Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#527

Post by AlotOfReading »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #504
_zoltan_ wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is a waste of time right now not to use AI to write code. It's the same category of "artisan code" like "artisan cheese": you can do it if you have a ton of free time as a hobby but other than a hobby? Not worth it.

I still have to remind Ai not to use the n+1 pattern in queries, and fight it to stop using inconsistent inline styles vs classes, even within a single page. How are people getting this "waste of time not to use AI" and "generates 99% of my code" level of code quality? I know people's response will likely be something, something, "add instructions to memory to not use n+1", etc. But if the Ai wants to generate code t…

I've been developing a suspicion that many people simply aren't looking at what their agents produce and can't speak to the quality of it in a fully informed way.

For context, I've set up harnesses with recursive automated review loops, spec driven development, explicit lists, better models, better harnesses, formal methods tooling, etc. All of it helps, but they don't eliminate output issues. Those become very apparent when I go through the slow, manual work of deeply comprehending / validating LLM code.

And that leads me to one of three conclusions. Either my standards are achievable only by hyperintelligent programming gods, I have a skill issue using LLMs, or others aren't applying the same level of attention.

The first is obviously untrue. I meet my own standards and I'm an idiot. The second seems unlikely because I can see my competent coworkers and well-regarded people in the community discussing the same issues. So that leaves the third.

Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#528

Post by jbs789 »

askvictor wrote: post #515
jbs789 wrote: post #502

If you have an agent that can run a business, then… why not… run a business? Why does YC bother financing startups led by founders, if the AI can just do it? (This startup proudly remarks that it’s backed by YC)

Not quite sure of the intent, but I have variously thought of starting a business based on an idea or gap in the market I could fill with my coding skills... only to realise running a business is not fun at all. Even getting an app published in the app store (and maintaining it) is a level of boredom I can't be bothered with. So maybe that's a use case. Of course, nowadays the coding part will be done by an agent too…

I use the coding tools in my business. I wouldn’t for a moment suggest those tools are capable of “running” a business and I think it is disingenuous to suggest so.

Re: Pion, an agent designed to run any company autonomously

#529

Post by krapp »

tacomagick wrote: post #422
handbanana_ wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First rule is AI cannot make a management decision

Because it cannot be held liable

That will probably change sooner than you think. Now that it's commonly accepted* that AI has reached AGI status there are already movements to grant legal personhood and rights to it, which would mean legal liability for its actions. Eventually we get to the cyberpunk trope of entirely autonomous corporations that only ever hire humans for gig work and pay them in femtobitcoins or something.

* I'm not arguing what that actually means, much less, whether or not that has actually happened, just that it's what people believe, and as we are a belief-driven culture rather than a data or fact driven culture, that belief is what will drive policy.

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