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Microsoft and OpenAI end their exclusive and revenue-sharing deal

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Re: Microsoft and OpenAI end their exclusive and revenue-sharing deal

#521

Post by KronisLV »

wg0 wrote: post #413

A wise man from Google said in an internal memo to the tune of: "We do not have any moat neither does anyone else." Deepseek v4 is good enough, really really good given the price it is offered at. PS: Just to be clear - even the most expensive AI models are unreliable, would make stupid mistakes and their code output MUST be reviewed carefully so Deepseek v4 is not any different either, it too is just a random token…

> Deepseek v4 is good enough, really really good given the price it is offered at.

Do they have monthly subscriptions, or are they restricted to paying just per token? It seems to be the latter for now: https://api-docs.deepseek.com/quick_start/pricing/

Really good prices admittedly, but having predictable subscriptions is nice too!

Re: Microsoft and OpenAI end their exclusive and revenue-sharing deal

#522

Post by eklavya »

PKop wrote: post #425
muyuu wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i've worked in two different large tech companies when i give my hot takes pseudonymously on social media these phrases would be nothing but a LARP i don't put my real name here nor do i put my professional commitments in my profile, and neither does this guy

Exactly. There is no scenario where we should expect some random anon to be speaking for Google. When that is the case a disclaimer is warranted, not the common case of speaking for oneself. He can write it once in his profile if he's so worried about it, not every other comment like he does. It's just inflated self importance

You seem smart and knowledgeable. Maybe you should reach the lawyers at these companies and then they can change the policy!

Re: Microsoft and OpenAI end their exclusive and revenue-sharing deal

#523

Post by worik »

Art9681 wrote: post #511
bandrami wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equally you can't rule out innovation that makes deepseek more relevant than American models

We can because the reality is that America has led in AI since the beginning and has had the best frontier models. It's not like some other country held the top spot for any given period of time. No one in Europe or China. I'd give it the benefit of the doubt if there was precedent. But the only logical position to take is the lead is widening and while most AI's will go over some threshold where it is good enough fo…

> the reality is that America has led in AI since the beginning and has had the best frontier models

The USA has the biggest, but there lies their disadvantage

In the USA building bigger, better frontier models has been bigger data centres, more chips, more energy.

China has had to think, hard. Be cunning and make what they have do more

This is a pattern repeated in many domains all through the last hundred years.

Re: Microsoft and OpenAI end their exclusive and revenue-sharing deal

#525

Post by [deleted] »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #416
bigyabai wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GPUs are bottom-barrel for compute-focused industries. It is mobile-grade hardware that arguably can't even scale to prior Mac Pro workloads. > The GPU is monstrously good. Depending on the workload, the M1 series GPU using 120W could beat an RTX 3090 using 420W. You're just listing the TDP max of both chips. If you limit a 3090 to 120W then it would still run laps around an M1 Max in several workloads despite be…

Apple's obsession over reinventing the wheel with Metal Bold of them to reinvent something that hadn't been invented yet.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft and OpenAI end their exclusive and revenue-sharing deal

#526

Post by staz »

paodealho wrote: post #472
rotcev wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PS: Just to be clear - even the most expensive humans are unreliable, would make stupid mistakes, and their output MUST be reviewed carefully, so you’re not any different either. You’re just a random next-thought generator based on neuron firing distributions with no real thought process, trained on a few billion years of evolution like all other humans.

As fallible as they may be, I've never had a next-thought generator recommend me glue as a pizza ingredient.

You must not have kids

Re: Microsoft and OpenAI end their exclusive and revenue-sharing deal

#527

Post by declan_roberts »

KronisLV wrote: post #521
wg0 wrote: post #413

A wise man from Google said in an internal memo to the tune of: "We do not have any moat neither does anyone else." Deepseek v4 is good enough, really really good given the price it is offered at. PS: Just to be clear - even the most expensive AI models are unreliable, would make stupid mistakes and their code output MUST be reviewed carefully so Deepseek v4 is not any different either, it too is just a random token…

> Deepseek v4 is good enough, really really good given the price it is offered at. Do they have monthly subscriptions, or are they restricted to paying just per token? It seems to be the latter for now: https://api-docs.deepseek.com/quick_start/pricing/ Really good prices admittedly, but having predictable subscriptions is nice too!

It's indeed the latter. Psychologically harder for me than a $20/mo sub but still a better value for the money. I'm finding myself spending closer to $40-$60 a month w/ openrouter without a forced token break.

Edit: it looks like it's 75% off right now which is really an incredible deal for such a high caliber frontier model.

Re: Microsoft and OpenAI end their exclusive and revenue-sharing deal

#528

Post by KronisLV »

rvba wrote: post #519
mgol94 wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you using LLMs for? To learn about world’s politics? Oh boy I have a news for you…

One of the first things I did when openAI came out was asking it "which active politican is a spy?" - and it was blocked from the start. I asked early, at the time people were posting various jailbreaks, never worked. On a side note, any self hosted model I can get for my PC? I have 96 GB of RAM.

> On a side note, any self hosted model I can get for my PC? I have 96 GB of RAM.

Try the 8 bit quantized version (UD-Q8_K_X) of Qwen 3.6 35B A3B by Unsloth: https://huggingface.co/unsloth/Qwen3.6-35B-A3B-GGUF

Some people also like the new Gemma 4 26B A4B model: https://huggingface.co/unsloth/gemma-4-26B-A4B-it-GGUF

Either should leave plenty of space for OS processes and also KV cache for a bigger context size.

I'm guessing that MoE models might work better, though there are also dense versions you can try if you want.

Performance and quality will probably both be worse than cloud models, though, but it's a nice start!

Re: Microsoft and OpenAI end their exclusive and revenue-sharing deal

#529

Post by mort96 »

dpark wrote: post #514
mort96 wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If what you are saying is true, then LLMs wouldn't be able to handle out-of-distribution math problems without resorting to tool use. Yet they can. When you ask a current-generation model to multiply some 8-digit numbers, and forbid it from using tools or writing a script, it will almost certainly give you the right answer. That includes local models that can't possibly cheat. LLMs are stochastic, but they are not…

> Okay, what do you think language models are doing when they're not producing token probability distributions? What processes do you think are going on when the function which predicts a token isn't running? What are you doing when you are not outputting tokens? You have a thought, evaluate it, refine it, repeat. You’re not wrong that the basic building block is just “next token prediction”, but clearly the emergent…

> What are you doing when you are not outputting tokens? You have a thought, evaluate it, refine it, repeat.

I mean I do think sometimes even when not typing?

> Will this lead to AGI? That’s still TBD.

This is literally what I have been saying this whole time.

Since we agree, I will consider this conversation concluded.

Re: Microsoft and OpenAI end their exclusive and revenue-sharing deal

#530

Post by jackothy »

KronisLV wrote: post #521
wg0 wrote: post #413

A wise man from Google said in an internal memo to the tune of: "We do not have any moat neither does anyone else." Deepseek v4 is good enough, really really good given the price it is offered at. PS: Just to be clear - even the most expensive AI models are unreliable, would make stupid mistakes and their code output MUST be reviewed carefully so Deepseek v4 is not any different either, it too is just a random token…

> Deepseek v4 is good enough, really really good given the price it is offered at. Do they have monthly subscriptions, or are they restricted to paying just per token? It seems to be the latter for now: https://api-docs.deepseek.com/quick_start/pricing/ Really good prices admittedly, but having predictable subscriptions is nice too!

You can just input your $X per month/week/whatever yourself as API credits
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