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Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

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Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#521

Post by oytis »

Pedro_Ribeiro wrote: post #462
Alupis wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do when the fine is more than double your annual revenue in the foreign nation, has international and geopolitical implications, impacts many other US businesses, could harm foreign relations, and will harm regular US citizens. That's exactly the type of thing the Executive Branch is supposed to deal with.

Do people not understand that companies on this scale are geopolitically important?

I mean, that's an argument for making them respect your country's laws or banning them from your country if they don't want to.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#522

Post by oaiey »

csallen wrote: post #423
aforwardslash wrote: post #361

Regardless of whether the law is absurd or not (I honestly have no idea, but we've seen some crazy stuff lately in the EU), its kinda precious that a CEO only complains about it when his company is fined. I'm certain it is also quite reassuring for any paying Cloudflare customer that the company strategy is driven by the CEO Twitter rants; That if by some reason doesn't want to play ball with local laws (as draconian…

> financing a company that thinks it is above the law I've never liked arguments like this, because laws are often complex, unreasonable, and unjust, and all of us (both individuals and companies) routinely use our best judgment to decide which laws to flout and which to follow, and when, where, and why to do so.

I share that perspective. Being an international company is a challenging thing regards law. You have to operate in best intent, and judges respect that.

And sure, some laws and most likely this one, are stupid. I always take GDPR as an example. Annoying as fuck, but a good regulation. Well written, well executed and hits its goal.

However, disrespecting and being tone deaf in communication is wrong, ignoring the intent (Italian based legal control of IP violations) is wrong and treating the Internet as a legal free space (or only accept US perspective) is wrong. Italy is a sovereign state and the Internet is operating there and on its citizens. It has all right and duty to do so. We have to respect that.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#523

Post by jacquesm »

NewJazz wrote: post #446
deadbabe wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really doesn’t matter what administration is in charge, at a certain level you have to curry favor with whatever administration is in power and hold your true motives close to your chest. People seem to think what people say in public is perfect knowledge of their true intentions. No. What they say is what they want someone to hear them say. There is nothing to gain by saying what you really feel, no one can prove…

Yeah well nobody glazed Biden or Kamala's dicks that hard.

In at least half those cases I can see why. Maybe choose your metaphors a bit more classy?

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#525

Post by oaiey »

PUSH_AX wrote: post #482
pop_calc wrote: post #325

The appeal to JD Vance is properly craven and validates the view that their business model is effectively a protection racket. Recall the unsavoury episode with taviso, when they lobbied the FTC to investigate him after he helped clean up their mess during Cloudbleed. They always pivot to aggression when challenged.

How is CFs business model a protection racket?

JD Vance business is a protection racket. That is how I read it

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#526

Post by jauntywundrkind »

csallen wrote: post #423
aforwardslash wrote: post #361

Regardless of whether the law is absurd or not (I honestly have no idea, but we've seen some crazy stuff lately in the EU), its kinda precious that a CEO only complains about it when his company is fined. I'm certain it is also quite reassuring for any paying Cloudflare customer that the company strategy is driven by the CEO Twitter rants; That if by some reason doesn't want to play ball with local laws (as draconian…

> financing a company that thinks it is above the law I've never liked arguments like this, because laws are often complex, unreasonable, and unjust, and all of us (both individuals and companies) routinely use our best judgment to decide which laws to flout and which to follow, and when, where, and why to do so.

For real. Laws likee anti-circumvention laws are a horrible plague on humanity. There's all kinds of nonsense & so often businesses have far too much sway or outright grasp over the legal system.

You can't be a hacker without having any Question Authority backbone or will. You don't have to be full onboard but very few nations seem capable of behaving at all reasonably when it comes to technology. And few even have the chance to do right: American corporate empire has insisted countries adopt particularly brutal ip laws for decades, and made trade contingent upon it.

The Declaration of Independence of Cyberspace & Doctorow's recent talk on the EU needing their own break for Cyberspace & IP Independence are both important revealing materials here. https://www.eff.org/cyberspace-independence https://media.ccc.de/v/39c3-a-post-american-enshittification... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46420951 https://www.eff.org/cyberspace-independence

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#527

Post by gusgus01 »

I should probably make sure my usage of Cloudflare is ready to be migrated off at a moments notice if it's this easy for Cloudflare to consider getting rid of it for a whole country. Funny enough, after a month in Italy and using my tailscale node at home out of habit, most online services assumed my home IP wanted the Italian version of every website (including Cloudflare). I wonder if that would have also included blocking me from access (if this ends up going through).

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#529

Post by jacquesm »

Pedro_Ribeiro wrote: post #462
Alupis wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do when the fine is more than double your annual revenue in the foreign nation, has international and geopolitical implications, impacts many other US businesses, could harm foreign relations, and will harm regular US citizens. That's exactly the type of thing the Executive Branch is supposed to deal with.

Do people not understand that companies on this scale are geopolitically important?

They're not.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#530

Post by ancorevard »

UqWBcuFx6NV4r wrote: post #326
ancorevard wrote: post #226

[flagged]

You know in your heart of hearts that this is a blatantly intellectually dishonest comparison. Nobody’s buying it, not even yourself.

True. CCP does not attempt to impose their censorship on other countries, while EU have asked Cloudflare to DNS block their wish list for the entire world.
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