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Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

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Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#481

Post by selfmodruntime »

nkmnz wrote: post #471
selfmodruntime wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I can't, since I lack the monetary funds. My claim stands correct, going to the federal constitutional court is expensive enough that many people are barred from that option. My claim stands correct - no judicial verdict is needed for the CUII to censor websites. Don't believe me. Believe the activists [1]. [1]: https://media.ccc.de/v/39c3-cuii-wie-konzerne-heimlich-webse...

new comment: you're so wrong that not even the opposite of your statement would be true. CUII is a private body, but it forces its members to go to court before they ask CUII to initiate a block: Jede DNS-Sperre einer strukturell urheberrechtsverletzenden Webseite (SUW) wird im Rahmen der CUII gerichtlich überprüft. Das ist freiwillige Selbstverpflichtung der CUII-Mitglieder. Denn eigentlich besteht kein Richtervorbe…

Why should a private entity control what people see online?

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#482

Post by PUSH_AX »

pop_calc wrote: post #325

The appeal to JD Vance is properly craven and validates the view that their business model is effectively a protection racket. Recall the unsavoury episode with taviso, when they lobbied the FTC to investigate him after he helped clean up their mess during Cloudbleed. They always pivot to aggression when challenged.

How is CFs business model a protection racket?

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#483

Post by TRiG_Ireland »

joe_mamba wrote: post #364
immibis wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you understand the fact that an alliance of countries is not held together by the absence of serial killers hiding in parks at night, yeah? Europe has rather famous historical knowledge of what the far right can do, and how it can destroy a country, and it has nothing to do with parks at night.

>Europe has rather famous historical knowledge of what the far right can do, and how it can destroy a country Since you brought up European history, let me ask you where the far right came from in WW2 Europe. Did they just suddenly come out of nowhere and manage to take over a continent just like that without having majority popular support amongst the population? Or was it an organic growth gaining political support…

Most of the big names campaigning against immigration are themselves credibly accused of sexual assault. We can see through your mind games.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#484

Post by jules »

tacker2000 wrote: post #71
bflesch wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is a big strategic mistake for him to personally take ownership of this topic and to elevate it on a political level. He openly aligned himself with two people who are extremely unpopular in Europe, while threatening an important EU member state. I think his hubris makes him overestimate Cloudflare's importance for Europe. Cloudflare is simply not important enough. If it was Microsoft or Apple threatening,…

I agree, he seems to be ranting and escalating unnecessarily.

The are fining his company 213% of yearly Italian revenue. He is not the one escalating.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#485

Post by bflesch »

throw0101d wrote: post #369
bflesch wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is a big strategic mistake for him to personally take ownership of this topic and to elevate it on a political level. He openly aligned himself with two people who are extremely unpopular in Europe, while threatening an important EU member state. I think his hubris makes him overestimate Cloudflare's importance for Europe. Cloudflare is simply not important enough. If it was Microsoft or Apple threatening,…

> Europe is too important for USA. I don't think the US administration will like the relationship to go sour at this very point in time just because of this Cloudflare doofus barking around. When you say "for USA", what do you mean by "USA"? Are you talking about the general US population? US corporations? Or the person who decides foreign policy direction (i.e., Trump)? Because Trump recently ordered the snatching o…

I was trying to say that even though the US administration is actively escalating with Europe, I don't think the point in time has been reached where they want to go full berserk and cut Europe off from services by US tech companies. Cloudflare CEO tries to trigger such an escalation right now, but I'm not sure the US administration wants this kind of escalation right now, because it would also accelerate migration away from Microsoft and other US tech companies, hurting their revenue. For FAANG $7M is peanuts, and they won't leave billions on the table just because Cloudflare CEO has a big ego.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#486

Post by NicuCalcea »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #438
gkoz wrote: post #120

A person praising Vance and Musk obviously doesn't value due process, judicial oversight and ultimately decency.

Please don't make everything into us versus them. Also that paragraph is very critical as far as praise goes.

> don't make everything into us versus them

Why not? There are real people out there who wish us harm, are we supposed to just take it?

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#488

Post by bflesch »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #404
bflesch wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a big difference between right to free speech by citizens of a certain country vs. someone working in the military propaganda unit of a foreign country who artificially amplifies their opinion thousandfold while masquerading as a citizen of the victim country with ultimate goal to harm the victim country.

You are focusing on identity and intent, e.g you are defending the restriction of speech based on who is speaking and why . Knowing the difference between an opinion of an origin you consider valid and one you consider invalid is difficult enough that one can abuse that justification to censor "real" speech by citizens.

Ivan from St. Petersburg calls himself "Heinz Müller" and creates a Telegram group that reports about immigrant crime in my neighborhood, trying to fool elderly citizens with lack of social media experience into believing his fake news stories. It's a proven approach and Ivan's main job. If Ivan would've been born in another country, he simply would've tried to scam elderly citizens, but because he was born in russia he works for the propaganda unit so he doesn't get sent to a meat assault on the frontlines.

In his free time Ivan comes to HN and poses as a free speech absolutist.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#489

Post by Root_Denied »

riffraff wrote: post #97
cubefox wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the German filters only apply to ISPs in Germany, they have no effect on users in foreign countries. Moreover, Cloudflare is obviously not an ISP.

the filters the Italian authorities complain about also only apply in italy. It's likely a process thing, Italy has had website bans since forever, but the new regulation applies _without going through a judge_. Some copyright holders can say "this website is infringing" and ISPs, CDNs etc.. are required to shut them down immediately. A similar system was introduced in Spain, with the same problems, for the same reas…

> EDIT: to be clear, CF argues that they need to block the DNS globally, and that's unreasonable. The Italian authority argues that they have the skills to do a local block and are just being uncooperative.

Similar to the UK's attempt to try and get noncompliant sites like Imgur and 4chan to block themselves from serving content to UK locations, I think the responsibility for country-wide blocks lies with the country attempting to regulate the space, not CDNs or websites.

I don't doubt that Italy is correct that CF has the technical ability do a local block like they're asking for, but I also don't see how CF is in any way (legally) compelled to do so. Whether or not Italy (or any country) is capable of doing so, or paying contractors for an appropriate solution, isn't CF's problem either.

Re: Cloudflare CEO on the Italy fines

#490

Post by jacquesm »

iamnothere wrote: post #379
chrneu wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are falling into the trap of ignoring the pandering. cloudflare bro is clearly pandering here and showing that, in the moment, he will say/do whatever to whomever to get what he wants. cloudflare kind of has a history of doing this. there was zero reason to name drop vance and elon besides appealing to their rabid fans to bolster support. it's just more hypocrisy.

What other option do they have? It’s either comply with unjust rulings that undermine the free internet (and their business) or make a deal with the devil. Either one is bad but only complying has an immediate negative impact. If there was any sense that this ruling was just a temporary mistake that will be corrected by pending regulation/legislation, then a third option would be on the table: temporarily comply and…

Cloudflare, the company that regularly blocks me from legitimately visiting websites because their bot detection software absolutely sucks probably is the biggest effective censor on the planet.
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