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Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

reuters.com

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Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#521

Two wrongs don’t make a right. Regardless of your opinion on Maduro, you can still acknowledge that the head of a sovereign state being captured in an unannounced/unnamed military operation by a superpower is wrong from a principled standpoint, and that it’s destabilising a country with 30+ million people if not the entire region.

Whether Maduro is corrupt, authoritarian, or illegitimate by your definition doesn’t suddenly make an undeclared foreign military strike to seize a sitting head of state acceptable. Sovereignty isn’t a reward for good behavior. It’s a constraint meant precisely to prevent powerful states from unilaterally deciding which governments get removed by force.

If the standard is “we can capture leaders we deem illegitimate,” then you’ve effectively endorsed a world where power, not law, decides regime change. You can oppose Maduro and still acknowledge that abducting a head of state via air strikes destabilizes a country of 30+ million people and sets a precedent that will be used by actors far less selective than the U.S.

Two wrongs don’t cancel out just because one feels morally satisfying. of course, we all drink the American imperialism koolaid here.

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#523

I just spent way too much time reading through this thread looking for a single post more concerned about Venezuela and its people than the poster's own politics. I gave up when I noticed I was only a 1/4 of the way through thread, should have started from the bottom.

Care for others is an increasingly condemnable trait in public opinion nowadays, a social suicide, ironically. As history taught us it will not end well.

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#524

If you're wondering WHY, good to read the Maduro indictment from 2020[1] and the press release at the time[2] [1] https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6819579-Maduro-Indic... [2] https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/nicol-s-maduro-moros...

Also good to read the Hernández indictment from 2022[1] and the press release at the time[2].

> Maduro and Other High Ranking Venezuelan Officials Allegedly Partnered With the FARC to Use Cocaine as a Weapon to “Flood” the United States

> Hernández Allegedly Partnered with Some of the Largest Cocaine Traffickers in the World to Transport Tons of Cocaine through Honduras to the United States

[1] https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21698603-us-v-juan-o...

[2] https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/juan-orlando-hern%C3...

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#525
post #411

I think people are overindexed on the US's failures to turn Islamic theocracies into democracies. The people in Venezuela want democracy. It's a fundamentally different situation.

"the common people sew dragon banners and pray for your return"

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#527
post #411

I think people are overindexed on the US's failures to turn Islamic theocracies into democracies. The people in Venezuela want democracy. It's a fundamentally different situation.

I don't think the US has any interest in a democratic and stable middle east.

It's much easier and cheaper to extract resources from a balkanized region.

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#528

It's funny how many people already see this as a book that is opened and closed on the same day. That's not how these things work. This is like the first stone of an avalanche. It could stop here, or it could roll on for quite a while. It will take months or even years to know whether or not the outcome here was desirable or not and what the final tally is. Remember the 'Arab spring' and what came after.

The Arab world is different because the people are largely fundamentalist and there's many extremists while the governments are relatively moderate. So get rid of the government and all the extremists take over.

Venezuela is Catholic and while it definitely has crime issues, there's no religious/fundamentalist element to the violence so the odds of anyone fighting to the death to support their failed dictator and his ideology is slim to none.

Re: Trump says Venezuela’s Maduro captured after strikes

#530
post #112

Pre 2014 no Russian person would directly wish/hope/wait for the annexation of Crimea. Surely some fanatics and crazies existed, but society at large didn't "need" it. One person made a decision. And that started a 11+ years of propaganda, political acrobatics, war, manipulation of the masses, etc etc etc. Lots of things that are good for that one person to be able to stay in power. Back to Venezuela and Trump - it's…

I'm sure you wish well, but

> Pre 2014 no Russian person would directly wish/hope/wait for the annexation of Crimea.

is just bollocks.

> On 21 May 1992 the Supreme Soviet of Russia declared 1954 transfer of Crimea as having "no legal force", because it was adopted "in violation of the Constitution (Fundamental Law) of the Russian SFSR and legislative process", but because subsequent legislation and the 1990 Russo-Ukrainian treaty constituted that fact

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_status_of_Crimea

Russians were planning Crimea takeover for a long time.

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