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Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

supercarblondie.com

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Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#521

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

catapart wrote: post #487
Dylan16807 wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 10 lbs per motor in an aircraft is huge. That's cool but the conversation was about cars. It's a welcome but tiny improvement for cars. Even after you multiply by 2 or 4, especially because the more motors a car has the smaller they are.

No, it's literally - by the discussion partner's own estimation[0] - cutting the motor size in half. That's not a tiny improvement, it's a half-weight reduction for the motor. It's not as big as I naively estimated from a google search, but it's still half the weight. That's the kind of thing engineers chase as a benchmark and rarely every actually achieve. It's great. But also, I reject your attempt to reframe the d…

I would tend to agree with the other poster that a 10lb reduction, or even a 20lb reduction, is pretty insignificant when it comes to modern consumer cars.

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#522

Post by loeg »

lunias wrote: post #513
loeg wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ~all battery weight, though. This doesn't really move the needle.

Curious what you mean? Surely more weight moves the weight needle?

1% or whatever just isn't a substantial savings.

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#523

Post by elihu »

Aurornis wrote: post #264
catapart wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It drops a buck fifty per motor . That IS a game changer. It can make cars cheaper, or longer range, or faster, or any number of other designs based on what the manufacturer is looking for. But to OP's point about flight - stacking 6 Tesla motors is not an option. Stacking 6 of these YASA motors? Much less weight.

> It drops a buck fifty per motor. That IS a game changer. You’re reading their marketing material. You have to think of this like all of those PR releases you’ve seen over the years about new battery technology that is 4X smaller or new hard drive tech that is 10X more efficient. The real world improvements aren’t going to be as big as their one lab test. A Model 3 motor is already well under 150lbs, unless you star…

Nah, the main thing is that electric motors are already far better than they need to be -- even assuming the claims are all true, it would only make a small difference.

Shaving a couple percent off the total vehicle weight would still be a very good thing, but improving batter energy density by 10% or so would be a bigger deal for most EVs.

There might be some niche applications where the battery weight isn't the biggest issue -- like very short-range, light-weight vehicles that need to have enormous amounts of power for some reason.

I could see motors like this being used in power tools if they can be scaled down. A light-weight plug-in electric chainsaw would be pretty awesome.

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#524

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

jansan wrote: post #31
dinkblam wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

saving 30 kg of weight on a 2000 - 2500 kg car won't lead to "significant efficiency gains"

Weight reductions on an electric car are self-reinforcing. If you reduce the weight of a component, the battery can become (slightly) smaller, which again reduces weight. At a certain amount of reduction this will allow you to make the whole structure lighter, which will again allow for a smaller battery. So yeah, weight reduction on EVs is great.

> If you reduce the weight of a component, the battery can become (slightly) smaller

Suppose we have a motor that weighs half as much, but produces double the output power, but consumes 4x the input power (so, it is half as efficient).

How would that lead to a smaller battery?

Wouldn't we need the component to use less power if we wanted to shrink the battery, rather than just weigh less?

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#525

Post by nandomrumber »

oblio wrote: post #439
SR2Z wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not allowed, but still commonly owned and used. The law needs to catch up. There are clearly good reasons for people to want extremely powerful e-bikes and they should be allowed to. They can't be treated like bicycles because they're too fast but aren't nearly as dangerous as motorcycles. We need a new category for light motorcycles. The real problem, IMO, is that the law is generally not deferential enough…

Any ebike that goes faster than 25kmph in Europe and whatever it is in NA should not be allowed anywhere were pedestrians can go. The real solution people don't want to accept is that ALL non arterial roads in ANY urban/suburban/rural environment should be limited to 30kpmh (and equivalent in NA). And by limited I mean traffic calmed: 1 lane per direction, narrow lanes, raised street crossing, raised intersections, E…

It’s only one step away from full zero road deaths.

I propose that in order to be able to leave your house people should have to have a valid reason, have done a course, and apply for a single-use permit.

Because, obviously, people can’t be trusted to do the right thing, ever, and one death in the community, for any reason, ever, is too many.

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#526

Post by lelandbatey »

jlarocco wrote: post #479
SR2Z wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not allowed, but still commonly owned and used. The law needs to catch up. There are clearly good reasons for people to want extremely powerful e-bikes and they should be allowed to. They can't be treated like bicycles because they're too fast but aren't nearly as dangerous as motorcycles. We need a new category for light motorcycles. The real problem, IMO, is that the law is generally not deferential enough…

> but aren't nearly as dangerous as motorcycles. What a ridiculous statement. I don't think there's any inherrent difference, but until the laws catch up the "powerful e-bikes" are clearly more dangerous. Riding a traditional motorcycle requires a license, passing a driving test, and following the rules of the road - none of which are true for e-bikes. But I'd love to hear why you think the opposite.

An ebike weighs less than a motorcycle by at least half (for super lightweight motorcycles) or less than 1/6th the weight. So a fast ebike is about as dangerous as merely the human person +100lbs traveling at speed.

Thus, less energy to transmit to a pedestrian

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#527

Post by ac29 »

fukka42 wrote: post #508
RajT88 wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling Wal-Mart a supermarket is a giant stretch. As TFA says, some Wal-marts have groceries, and some have guns, and there is some small overlap between the two, but Wal-Mart is not what anyone would call a "Supermarket" - they are more an "Everything Store" where the "Everything" can vary by location which sometimes includes guns and groceries, but always includes TV's and frozen food and fishing supplies and clot…

I specifically said supermarkets, not grocery stores. I acknowledge they're not the same thing, but Walmart absolutely is a supermarket. And I'll pass on visiting the US why y'all have armed police running around tackling people & disappearing them, and are demanding social media passwords only to refuse entry if you've been critical of Dear Leader. Sort your shit out, then maybe.

Supermarket and grocery store are basically synonyms in the US.

Walmart would be called a superstore or box store.

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#528

Post by nandomrumber »

elihu wrote: post #523
Aurornis wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It drops a buck fifty per motor. That IS a game changer. You’re reading their marketing material. You have to think of this like all of those PR releases you’ve seen over the years about new battery technology that is 4X smaller or new hard drive tech that is 10X more efficient. The real world improvements aren’t going to be as big as their one lab test. A Model 3 motor is already well under 150lbs, unless you star…

Nah, the main thing is that electric motors are already far better than they need to be -- even assuming the claims are all true, it would only make a small difference. Shaving a couple percent off the total vehicle weight would still be a very good thing, but improving batter energy density by 10% or so would be a bigger deal for most EVs. There might be some niche applications where the battery weight isn't the big…

> A light-weight plug-in electric chainsaw would be pretty awesome.

These already exist, in both plug-in and cordless / battery powered.

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#529

Post by nandomrumber »

catapart wrote: post #328
Aurornis wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dropping 10 lbs per motor is HUGE. Auto makers could drop 10lbs, 100lbs or even more from every EV right now by choosing more expensive materials, more expensive manufacturing processes, or simply cutting back on amenities. 10lbs is not significant in the grand scheme of things. The real question is how much it costs, what are the tradeoffs, and how practical is it. > But I did so in service of a point which you st…

10 lbs per motor in an aircraft is huge. And the fact that they can do it WITHOUT having to use more expensive materials or manufacturing or amenities is the thing that is huge about it . It's a fair take on your responses because talking about a SINGLE motor is missing the point. You're not engaging with the actual point that OP made, you're trying to dispute OP by engaging in your own point about what difference th…

The Boeing 737-800 is the best selling jet liner in history with over 15,000 manufactured.

The 737-800 has a maximum takeoff weight: 174,200 pounds (79,010 kilograms).

What’s 10lbs got to do with anything?

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#530

Post by nandomrumber »

gogusrl wrote: post #329
whamlastxmas wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Range in EVs is impacted very little by weight

Exactly. I was very surprised to find out a fully loaded 40 ton electric truck only uses ~100kw / 100km ( https://www.youtube.com/@electrictrucker ) when my 2 ton Volvo averages 20-22kw/100km on road trips.

Newton’s first law helps out a lot here.
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