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Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

supercarblondie.com

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Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#261

Post by catapart »

Aurornis wrote: post #251
davedx wrote: post #6

Could lead to significant efficiency gains for EV's, because 1/4 of the motor weight means better power-to-weight ratio... a lot of things will automatically get better. YASA was founded in 2009, a spin out from Oxford University following the PhD of founder and still CTO, Dr Tim Woolmer. "Over the decades that followed both of these technologies were explored. But despite the potential for weight reduction, smaller…

> Could lead to significant efficiency gains for EV's, because 1/4 of the motor weight means better power-to-weight ratio... a lot of things will automatically get better. EV motors are already lightweight. The electric motor in a vehicle like a Tesla Model 3 already weighs less than you do. Reducing that one component by 75% would be a weight savings equivalent to about a half of a passenger. Not a significant effic…

It drops a buck fifty per motor. That IS a game changer.

It can make cars cheaper, or longer range, or faster, or any number of other designs based on what the manufacturer is looking for.

But to OP's point about flight - stacking 6 Tesla motors is not an option. Stacking 6 of these YASA motors? Much less weight.

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#262

Post by hvb2 »

robotresearcher wrote: post #248
thesz wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla Model Y's battery is 771 kg. The motor in Model Y weights about 45 kg, about three times as much as the motor in the article. By reducing dual motor configuration weight from 90 kg to 28 kg, we reduce total powertrain weight by 7%.

The new motor is also much more than double the power output of the Model Y motor, so the second motor and its wiring could be eliminated completely.

No, because that second motor gives you AWD. Sure that's a feature you could go without...

But torque and power were never the limiting factor for an EV. You would only benefit on a track, and if you're taking a model Y there...

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#263

Post by jakogut »

nmehner wrote: post #15
amelius wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But EVs are already heavy because of the battery. I suppose percentage-wise the motors don't make much of a difference (?)

The issue with this type of motor is that it is part of the unsprung weight since it is inside the wheel. This is probably why savings here matter a lot more (or at least in a very different way) than the battery weight.

What current mass production EVs use hub motors? It seems a lot more sensible to have the motors inboard, mounted to the chassis, and drive the wheel(s) with axle shafts. It seems in my searching this is how nearly all EVs are currently designed and produced.

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#264

Post by Aurornis »

catapart wrote: post #261
Aurornis wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Could lead to significant efficiency gains for EV's, because 1/4 of the motor weight means better power-to-weight ratio... a lot of things will automatically get better. EV motors are already lightweight. The electric motor in a vehicle like a Tesla Model 3 already weighs less than you do. Reducing that one component by 75% would be a weight savings equivalent to about a half of a passenger. Not a significant effic…

It drops a buck fifty per motor . That IS a game changer. It can make cars cheaper, or longer range, or faster, or any number of other designs based on what the manufacturer is looking for. But to OP's point about flight - stacking 6 Tesla motors is not an option. Stacking 6 of these YASA motors? Much less weight.

> It drops a buck fifty per motor. That IS a game changer.

You’re reading their marketing material. You have to think of this like all of those PR releases you’ve seen over the years about new battery technology that is 4X smaller or new hard drive tech that is 10X more efficient. The real world improvements aren’t going to be as big as their one lab test.

A Model 3 motor is already well under 150lbs, unless you start including ancillaries like the inverter and power transmission parts.

They’re not dropping “a buck fifty” from typical EV motors.

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#265

Post by hvb2 »

Enginerrrd wrote: post #207
jama211 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see anything inside the article that says it’s designed to be inside the wheel. I’m not sure where they got that from.

From Wikipedia on Axial Flux Motors: >"Mercedes-Benz subsidiary YASA (Yokeless and Segmented Armature) makes AFMs that have powered various concept (Jaguar C-X75), prototype, and racing vehicles. It was also used in the Koenigsegg Regera, the Ferrari SF90 Stradale and S96GTB, Lamborghini Revuelto hybrid and the Lola-Drayson.[9] The company is investigating the potential for placing motors inside wheels, given that AF…

The fact that you CAN put it in the wheel doesn't mean it MUST to go in the wheel.

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#266

Post by Y_Y »

Someone wrote: post #192
exasperaited wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Motorcycles I could imagine. Do e-bikes really need significantly more power than they have? They already run arguably dangerously fast for their application. Is efficiency not the primary target there?

They don’t need this motor, but if it can be scaled down… at over 10kW/kg sustained, one could wish/hope to get 200W at 50g (disclaimer: I have no idea how this scales with size). Combine that with 1kg of a 600Wh/kg battery ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45797452 . Again, I have no idea how realistic that is), and you have a bicycle that’s only a little heavier than a non-electric one, but gives you a boost f…

For reference, an average commuter cyclist has a power output of about 200W, a world-class racer can do about 600W.

Ref: https://www.cyclinganalytics.com/blog/2018/06/how-does-your-...

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#267

Post by Lio »

Aurornis wrote: post #251
davedx wrote: post #6

Could lead to significant efficiency gains for EV's, because 1/4 of the motor weight means better power-to-weight ratio... a lot of things will automatically get better. YASA was founded in 2009, a spin out from Oxford University following the PhD of founder and still CTO, Dr Tim Woolmer. "Over the decades that followed both of these technologies were explored. But despite the potential for weight reduction, smaller…

> Could lead to significant efficiency gains for EV's, because 1/4 of the motor weight means better power-to-weight ratio... a lot of things will automatically get better. EV motors are already lightweight. The electric motor in a vehicle like a Tesla Model 3 already weighs less than you do. Reducing that one component by 75% would be a weight savings equivalent to about a half of a passenger. Not a significant effic…

Not a game changer but I wonder if ligher motors allow you to do things like have one motor per drive wheel, removing the need for differential gearboxes?

Then you can do clever things with traction control without having to use the ABS system to brake the drive wheels.

Or dramatically change the turning circle on big cars and vans. Maybe even reduce the size and weight of the braking system by taking on some of that role.

All for the same weight budget.

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#268

Post by thesz »

UnserMannInK wrote: post #254
thesz wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla Model Y's battery is 771 kg. The motor in Model Y weights about 45 kg, about three times as much as the motor in the article. By reducing dual motor configuration weight from 90 kg to 28 kg, we reduce total powertrain weight by 7%.

And shouldn’t it be possible to make the battery smaller with a more efficient motor?

It is not indicated anywhere that this particular motor is more efficient than older ones in terms of the electric force conversion.

This new motor is more powerful, that's it.

Nothing was said about cooling or voltage requirements. The latter is important because higher voltage is more dangerous to work with or be near.

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#269

Post by catapart »

Aurornis wrote: post #264
catapart wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It drops a buck fifty per motor . That IS a game changer. It can make cars cheaper, or longer range, or faster, or any number of other designs based on what the manufacturer is looking for. But to OP's point about flight - stacking 6 Tesla motors is not an option. Stacking 6 of these YASA motors? Much less weight.

> It drops a buck fifty per motor. That IS a game changer. You’re reading their marketing material. You have to think of this like all of those PR releases you’ve seen over the years about new battery technology that is 4X smaller or new hard drive tech that is 10X more efficient. The real world improvements aren’t going to be as big as their one lab test. A Model 3 motor is already well under 150lbs, unless you star…

I'm not reading anyone's marketing material. If you want to dispute the shipping weight, feel free to correct this website whom I assume charges for shipping based on weight [0]. I'm sure they'd love to know they have it wrong.

According to purchasable equipment, the Model 3 engines weight ~175 lbs. If that's wrong, that's on them for claiming it. Subtract 28 lbs from that and you're at 147 lbs. That is very close to 150 lbs.

[0] https://evshop.eu/en/electric-motors/295-tesla-model-3-drive...

Re: Tiny electric motor can produce more than 1,000 horsepower

#270

Post by hedora »

robotresearcher wrote: post #248
thesz wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla Model Y's battery is 771 kg. The motor in Model Y weights about 45 kg, about three times as much as the motor in the article. By reducing dual motor configuration weight from 90 kg to 28 kg, we reduce total powertrain weight by 7%.

The new motor is also much more than double the power output of the Model Y motor, so the second motor and its wiring could be eliminated completely.

You’d need to add back in an all wheel drive powertrain. A typical drive shaft is 20 to 50 pounds (9 to 23 kilograms)

The motor is high torque, so I’d expect the drive shaft to be on the heavier end of that.

I’m not including the other power train components, but it’s easy to imagine it all adding to more than the weight of a second engine + wiring.

Also, having one more complicated power train is probably less efficient than two simpler ones, which implies a bigger battery.

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