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Keep Android Open

keepandroidopen.org

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Re: Keep Android Open

#521

Post by mistercheph »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #435
dangus wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bingo, this right here. Linux desktop wasn’t a daily driver until one day it was. Although the only problem with this strategy is that Linux got that way because of a lot of private companies that actually wanted that. Valve didn’t want to be locked in with Microsoft. Many of Microsoft’s direct competitors also don’t want to be locked in. IBM famously switched to Mac, Google has been using Mac and Linux workstations…

It's a transient state. Food for thought: how much of Linux being a daily driver depends on you having a modern Android or iOS smartphone ? If you need a locked down phone that passes remote attestation to authenticate yourself to a remote service, then whatever you use to access the service UI doesn't really matter: the only device that's necessary to have to use the service is the one you don't fully control, and w…

Bitcoin :D

Re: Keep Android Open

#522

Post by raxxorraxor »

liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

Problem is the hardware vendors often very much like closed systems. And banking apps too. We sadly have a much less open hardware ecosystem compared to the PC landscape. And even here driver problems are more pronounced the more exotic the OS platform.

For me mobile OS are a broken mess, irrespective of Apple or Google, so I would love to have an alternative. Mobile phones are powerful devices that are severely handicapped by bad software. Restrictions are sold as security and there are a lot of people that even buy into these crap argument. So much so that even legislation has adopted them to some degree.

But for hardware vendors to jump on another train, a new OS must probably offer something shiny. And the average user has no idea how easy it could be to interface your smartphone with other devices without needing some ad riddled vendor specific apps. I mean you can install an ssh client on your phone, but meh... That is more or less the only app I install these days.

Re: Keep Android Open

#523

Post by jayd16 »

kube-system wrote: post #446
liendolucas wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Webapps solve this completely. You login to a service as we have been doing forever. And the control is still on their side when you use a webapp. Almost every single app that is on my phone can be a webapp.

But, it doesn't. The browser is unsupported for many of the above-mentioned applications.

Can I get an example of a single one that can't be found on the web?

Re: Keep Android Open

#524

Post by mistercheph »

paxys wrote: post #430
liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

Because money. Yes Android is open source, but Google is spending billions of dollars a year paying engineers to develop it. If you want Android to be "free" find alternate funding, with no strings attached.

See: linux

Re: Keep Android Open

#525

Post by BeFlatXIII »

giamma wrote: post #145

While I understand the reasons behind this campaign, I have mixed feelings about it. As an iPhone user, I find it frustrating that deploying my own app on my own device requires either reinstalling it every 7 days or paying $100 annually. Android doesn't have this limitation, which makes it simpler and more convenient for personal use. However, when it comes to publishing apps to the store, I take a different view. I…

> Maven Central registry for Java libraries, by contrast, requires developers to own the DNS domain used as a namespace

What are the requirements around domain renewal?

Re: Keep Android Open

#526

Post by TeMPOraL »

mistercheph wrote: post #521
TeMPOraL wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a transient state. Food for thought: how much of Linux being a daily driver depends on you having a modern Android or iOS smartphone ? If you need a locked down phone that passes remote attestation to authenticate yourself to a remote service, then whatever you use to access the service UI doesn't really matter: the only device that's necessary to have to use the service is the one you don't fully control, and w…

Bitcoin :D

All fun and games until you want to exchange it to traditional fiat - at which point regular banking suddenly feels like FSF heaven in comparison :).

Re: Keep Android Open

#528

Post by mistercheph »

echelon_musk wrote: post #308
liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

Good luck funding the development of a competing mobile OS by FLOSS nerds that can compete with Google's trillion dollar market cap. Even if you could get some traction, you're gonna have a bad time getting banks to support this OS, at which point it will be useless for most users, preventing you from ever becoming profitable.

Linux, linux, linux, if you’re blackpilled keep it to yourself, contributes nothing.

Re: Keep Android Open

#529

Post by aprilfoo »

cryptoneo wrote: post #197

The play store ID process is ridiculous, their AI is making up BS why it wouldn't let your documents pass, clearly no human in the loop. In the EU we can report this to: comp-market-information@ec.europa.eu State that: Google is abusing its dominant position on the market for Android-app distribution by “denial of access to an essential facility”. Google is not complying with their "gatekeeper" DMA obligations (Artic…

The EU's DMA team replied to a previous inquiry:

> [...] the Digital Markets Act (‘DMA’) obliges gatekeepers like Google to effectively allow the distribution of apps on their operating system through third party app stores or the web. At the same time, the DMA also permits Google to introduce strictly necessary and proportionate measures to ensure that third-party software apps or app stores do not endanger the integrity of the hardware or operating system or to enable end users to effectively protect security. [...]

They seem to be on it, but no surprise: it's all about Google's claims for "security" and "ongoing dialogue gatekeepers".

Freedom to use own hardware or software, no.

Re: Keep Android Open

#530

Post by mistercheph »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #210
pyeri wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This situation would have been avoided if we, as community of engineers, had insisted on full and uncompromised open source (Stallmanist or GPL way) right from the start instead of going the ESR way of half-hearted open source where it's technically open but corporates get to have a free lunch and make abuses. Like most coders, I also prefer the permissive MIT/Apache/BSD licensing for most software projects but incid…

But Linux is GPL. That didn't stop Google from using it as a basis for something that is not GPL and in fact not even open source (Google Play Services). What leverage does a community of engineers have to insist on anything? Android could be entirely closed source. So could Chrome. It would be naive to assume that the power dynamics in our society can be fundamentally altered by a 10 line software license.

But they are!!
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