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FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

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Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#521

Post by dragonwriter »

SimbaOnSteroids wrote: post #506
bdelmas wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am going to be downvoted to oblivion but sanctuary cities for what you are saying is like a monkey patch in code. It "works" for now but it's not a long-term viable solution. A person breaking the law and be fine to be a criminal to be in a country is already the wrong mindset. And these persons are only at step 1 in a life in the US. What happens when life will be tough later are they now magically going to stop a…

Calling it a crime vastly overstates what the offense is. Entering in the country illegally is a misdemeanor, when you call them criminals you rhetorically frame it as a serious offense like a felony. Its disingenuous.

> Being in the country illegally is a misdemeanor

No, its not.

Entering the country illegally is at least a misdemeanor (can be a felony depending on specific details), but being in the country illegally is not, itself, a crime, and it is possible to be in the country illegally without entering illegally.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#522

Post by lostdog »

ldoughty wrote: post #326
mjburgess wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. It isnt clear ICE agents have any legal authority to demand a judge tell them anything. 2. It is highly likely this is an official act, since it would be taken on behalf of court, so the immigrant can give, eg. testimony in a case. A "private act" here would be the judge lying in order to prevent their deportation because they as a private person wanted to do so. It seems highly unlikely that this is the case.

According to the FBI complaint that was just made available: Judge Dugan escorted the subject through a "jurors door" to private hallways and exits instead of having the defendant leave via the main doors into the public hallway, where she visually confirmed the agents were waiting for him. I couldn't tell if the judge knew for certain that ICE was only permitted to detain the defendant in 'public spaces' or not. Reg…

The feds have been lying in their court filings for the past few months, so don't take their complaint at face value.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#523

Post by Gabriel54 »

mmanfrin wrote: post #494
Gabriel54 wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the purpose of laws if they are willfully ignored? Where do you draw the line? If the police don't care about someone's immigration status, why should they care about who broke into your car?

> What is the purpose of laws if they are willfully ignored? Nearly every liberty we take for granted was at one point against the law or gained through willful lawbreaking. A healthy society should be tolerant of some bending of the rules.

I agree with you. A quick search suggests that there are 11 million undocumented people in the United States, or about 3% of the population. A healthy society does not harbor 11 million people without documentation so they can be exploited by employers for cheap labor, not given proper health care and labor rights.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#524

Post by openasocket »

kstrauser wrote: post #406

Part of the reason why I support "sanctuary cities" is that it's better for everyone if undocumented immigrants feel safe talking to the police. Imagine someone broke into my car and there was a witness who saw the whole thing. I want them to be OK telling the cops what happened. I want them to be OK reporting crimes in their neighborhood. I want them to be OK testifying about it in court. I want them to be OK callin…

There's another argument that you touched on in your last paragraph that I think deserves to be underlined, which is about proper accountability.

Imagine an undocumented immigrant who commits a serious crime, like murder. Do you want the local prosecutors to go after them, and send them to jail for a long time? Or do you want ICE to go after them, in which case they ... get deported and wind up living free in another country (putting aside the current debacle with El Salvador and CECOT). Where is the justice in that? If someone commits some sort of crime in the US, I want justice to be served before we talk about deporting them.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#525

Post by SimbaOnSteroids »

dragonwriter wrote: post #521
SimbaOnSteroids wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling it a crime vastly overstates what the offense is. Entering in the country illegally is a misdemeanor, when you call them criminals you rhetorically frame it as a serious offense like a felony. Its disingenuous.

> Being in the country illegally is a misdemeanor No, its not. Entering the country illegally is at least a misdemeanor (can be a felony depending on specific details), but being in the country illegally is not, itself, a crime, and it is possible to be in the country illegally without entering illegally.

ah my mistake, regardless calling people here illegally criminals is disingenuous given the potential offense committed.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#526

Post by IncreasePosts »

andrewstuart2 wrote: post #487
tintor wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

In an ideal world, maybe that's how it would work. In reality, that's not how it works or likely ever will work. So the comment you're replying to is a pragmatic approach to "how do we make the world we actually live in, not some idealized fantasy, safer?"

In reality, Trump's tough on illegal immigrants approach has drastically reduced the number of illegal border crossings compared to Biden's term.

So, it seems that "people living in the country illegally" doesn't have to just be a fact of life, if there are federal policy changes that can radically alter the number of people who illegally enter the country.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#527

Post by thrance »

cactacea wrote: post #454

ICE has absolutely no business in state courthouses. The federal interest in enforcing immigration law should not be placed above the state's interest in enforcing equal protection under the law. Consider the case of a undocumented rape victim. Do they not deserve justice? Are we better off letting a rapist go free when their victim cannot testify against them because they were deported? I think not and I do not want…

A sane argument against an insane position. Republicans are perfectly fine with unpunished violence against non-citizens. No wonder tourism is sharply declining.

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#528

Post by Ancapistani »

sophacles wrote: post #493
kcatskcolbdi wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and something tells me the side that spent decades demonizing firearm ownership probably can't win an arms race against their ideological opponents.

What a strange set of ideas presented in such a small sentence fragment. * Very few people demonize gun ownership. They just want some laws preventing criminals from owning guns. * Guns are very easy to obtain, the "arms race" is a trip to the local sporting goods store. Sure, the weapon may not be super tacti-cool with a bunch of skulls and shit, but I'm pretty sure that even without all the virtue signalling decals…

> They just want some laws preventing criminals from owning guns.

Criminals - you mean like illegal immigrants and those who aid and abet them?

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#529

Post by sylens »

anonym29 wrote: post #77

Would it not be better to have a peaceful, civil, lawful, separation of the two different Americas than for us to rigidly cling to an idea of a "United" States that no longer represents reality? We're clearly living in two different realities already, brought about the partisan media (on both sides) willfully and deliberately misrepresenting reality to serve the interests of their shadowy trillion-dollar corporate co…

How would you pull this off when the split seems pretty divided between city/suburban and more rural areas? Does everybody have to airlift their goods everywhere?

Re: FBI arrests judge accused of helping man evade immigration authorities

#530

Post by xyzzy9563 »

crooked-v wrote: post #319
jawiggins wrote: post #291

The AP article [1] has the full complaint linked, the crux of the case seems to be around the judge allowing the defendant to leave through a back entrance ("jury door") when they were aware agents were waiting in the public hallway to make an arrest as they exited. " 29. Multiple witnesses have described their observations after Judge DUGAN returned to her courtroom after directing members of the arrest team to the…

I find it extremely doubtful that she told the agents he'd be leaving through a particular door or that she had any legal obligation to make sure the man exited in a particular way.

It's a crime to harbor or aid illegals in evading federal authorities. So this is a legal obligation of every person.
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