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AI 2027

ai-2027.com

521–530 of 641 posts

Re: AI 2027

#521

I think we've actually had capable AIs for long enough now to see that this kind of exponential advance to AGI in 2 years is extremely unlikely. The AI we have today isn't radically different from the AI we had in 2023. They are much better at the thing they are good at, and there are some new capabilities that are big, but they are still fundamentally next-token predictors. They still fail at larger scope longer ter…

> we haven't seen the signs of a runaway singularity as some thought was likely.

The signs are not there but while we may not be on an exponential curve (which would be difficult to see), we are definitely on a steep upward one which may get steeper or may fizzle out if LLM's can only reach human level 'intelligence' but not surpass it. Original article was a fun read though and 360,000 words shorter than my very similar fiction novel :-)

Re: AI 2027

#522
Perhaps more of a meta question is, what is the value of optimistic vs pessimistic predictions regarding what AI might look like in 2-10 years? I.e. if one assumes that AI has hit a wall, what is the benefit? Similarly, if one assumes that its all "robots from Mars" in a year or two, what is the benefit of that? There is no point in making predictions if no actions are taken. It all seems to come down to buy or sell NVDA.

Re: AI 2027

#523
They would be better of making simple predictions, instead of proposing that in less than 2 years from now, the Trump administration will provide a UBI to all American citizens. That, and frequently talking about the wise president controlling this "thing", when in reality, he's a senile 80yrs old madman, is preposterous.

Re: AI 2027

#524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sigh. When you talk to these people their eugenics obsession always comes out eventually. Set a timer and wait for it.

While I don't disagree that I've seen a lot of eugenics talk from rationalist(-adjacent)s, I don't think this is an example of it: this is describing how misaligned AI could technically keep humans alive while still killing "humanity."

Fair enough. Sometimes it comes out as a dark fantasy projected onto their AI gods, rather than a thing that they themselves want to do to us.

Re: AI 2027

#525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't the compute be remote from the robot? That is a major advantage of human technology over biology.

Mostly latency. But even if a single robot could be driven by a data centre consider the energy and hardware investment requirements to make such a creature practical.

The Figure robots use a two level control scheme with a fast LLM at 200Hz directly controlling the robot and a slow planning LLM running at 7Hz. This planning LLM could be very far away indeed and still have less than 142.8ms of latency.

Re: AI 2027

#526
post #69

This is hilariously over-optimistic on the timescales. Like on this timeline we'll have a Mars colony in 10 years, immortality drugs in 15 and Half Life 3 in 20.

Can you share your detailed projection of what you expect the future to look like so I can compare?

With each passing year, AI doom grifters will learn more and more web design gimmicks.

Re: AI 2027

#527

The story is entertaining, but it has a big fallacy - progress is not a function of compute or model size alone. This kind of mistake is almost magical thinking. What matters most is the training set. During the GPT-3 era there was plenty of organic text to scale into, and compute seemed to be the bottleneck. But we quickly exhausted it, and now we try other ideas - synthetic reasoning chains, or just plain synthetic…

I agree with your point about the validation bottleneck becoming dominant over raw compute and simple model scaling. However, I wonder if we're underestimating the potential headroom for sheer efficiency breakthroughs at our levels of intelligence.

Von Neumann for example was incredibly brilliant, yet his brain presumably ran on roughly the same power budget as anyone else's. I mean, did he have to eat mountains of food to fuel those thoughts? ;)

So it looks like massive gains in intelligence or capability might not require proportionally massive increases in fundamental inputs at least at the highest levels of intelligence a human can reach, and if that's true for the human brain why not for other architecture of intelligence.

P.S. It's funny, I was talking about something along the lines of what you said with a friend just a few minutes before reading your comment so when I saw it I felt that I had to comment :)

Re: AI 2027

#528
post #415
post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someday we will have a machine simulate a cat, then the village idiot... This isn't how LLMs work. I think you misunderstood that argument. The simulate the brain thing isn't a "start from the beginning" argument, it's an "answer a common objection" argument. Back around 2000, when Nick Bostrom was talking about this sort of thing, computers were simply nowhere near powerful enough to come even close to being smart…

> The idea is, if we don't think of anything more efficient, we'll at least be able to simulate a cat, and then an idiot, and then Einstein, and then something smarter. And since we almost certainly will think of something more efficient than "simulate a human brain", we should expect superintelligence to come much sooner. The problem with this argument is that it's assuming that we're on a linear track to more and m…

> We have multi-paragraph autocomplete that's matching existing texts more and more closely.

OK, I think I see where you're coming from. It sounds like what you're saying is:

E. LLMs only do multi-paragraph autocomplete; they are and always will be incapable of actual thinking.

F. Any approach capable of achieving AGI will be completely different in structure. Who knows if or when this alternate approach will even be developed; and if it is developed, we'll be starting from scratch, so we'll have plenty of time to worry about progress then.

With E, again, it may or may not be true. It's worth noting that this is a theoretical argument, not an empirical one; but I think it's a reasonable assumption to start with.

However, there are actually theoretical reasons to think that E may be false. The best way to predict the weather is to have an internal model which approximates weather systems; the best way to predict the outcome of a physics problem is to have an internal model which approximates the physics of the thing you're trying to predict. And the best way to predict what a human would write next is to have a model of a human mind -- including a model of what the human mind has in its model (e.g., the state of the world).

There is some empirical data to support this argument, albeit in a very simplified manner: They trained a simple LLM to predict valid moves for Othello, and then probed it and discovered an internal Othello board being simulated inside the neural network:

https://thegradient.pub/othello/

And my own experience with LLMs better match the "LLMs have an internal model of the world" theory than the "LLMs are simply spewing out statistical garbage" theory.

So, with regard to E: Again, sure, LLMs may turn out to be a dead end. But I'd personally give the idea that LLMs are a complete dead end a less than 50% probability; and I don't think giving it an overwhelmingly high probability (like 1 in a million of being false) is really reasonable, given the theoretical arguments and empirical evidence against it.

With regard to F, again, I don't think this is true. We've learned so much about optimizing and distilling neural nets, optimizing training, and so on -- not to mention all the compute power we've built up. Even if LLMs are a dead end, whenever we do find an architecture capable of achieving AGI, I think a huge amount of the work we've put into optimizing LLMs will put is way ahead in optimizing this other system.

> ...that the current advances in AI will lead to some science fiction future.

I mean, if you'd told me 5 years ago that I'd be able to ask a computer, "Please use this Golang API framework package to implement CRUD operations for this particular resource my system has", and that the resulting code would 1) compile out of the box, 2) exhibit an understanding of that resource and how it relates to other resources in the system based on having seen the code implementing those resources 3) make educated guesses (sometimes right, sometimes wrong, but always reasonable) about details I hadn't specified, I don't think I would have believed you.

Even if LLM progress is logarithmic, we're already living in a science fiction future.

EDIT: The scenario actually has very good technical "asides"; if you want to see their view of how a (potentially dangerous) personality emerges from "multi-paragraph auto-complete", look at the drop-down labelled "Alignment over time", and specifically what follows "Here’s a detailed description of how alignment progresses over time in our scenario:".

https://ai-2027.com/#alignment-over-time

Re: AI 2027

#529
Something I ponder in the context of AI alignment is how we approach agents with potentially multiple objectives. Much of the discussion seems focused on ensuring an AI pursues a single goal. Which seems to be a great idea if we are trying to simplify the problem but I'm not sure how realistic it is when considering complex intelligences.

For example human motivation often involves juggling several goals simultaneously. I might care about both my own happiness and my family's happiness. The way I navigate this isn't by picking one goal and maximizing it at the expense of the other; instead, I try to balance my efforts and find acceptable trade-offs.

I think this 'balancing act' between potentially competing objectives may be a really crucial aspect of complex agency, but I haven't seen it discussed as much in alignment circles. Maybe someone could point me to some discussions about this :)

Re: AI 2027

#530
post #238

I think some of the takes in this piece are a bit melodramatic, but I'm glad to see someone breaking away from the "it's all a hype-bubble" nonsense that seems to be so pervasive here.

I think the piece you're missing here is that it actually is all a hype bubble
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