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Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

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Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#521

Post by rtkwe »

randerson wrote: post #434
wood_spirit wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Footage existing and footage being released to the public are two different things. I understand there is a public Voyeur interest in seeing crashes, but how does releasing footage of accidents aid investigation or safety outcomes?

Considering how much effort it takes the NTSB to reconstruct the chain of events from the crash site and flight data recorder, any high-resolution video could be very valuable. In particular I think all airliners should have 4K "dashcams" considering how inexpensive the technology now is. Crashes aside, a high-res Tower view would also make a great live webcam for enthusiasts to watch while listening to LiveATC.

A view just out the front of the plane wouldn't do much to help crash investigations and one of the big reasons they don't is you have to make a large enough storage resilient enough it can reasonably survive a crash. Most crashes are no where near this gentle.

Far more useful would be an interior cockpit view showing the crew and the actions they were taking but a lot of that is recorded to the FDR on newer planes too.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#522

Post by Scoundreller »

ominous_prime wrote: post #508
briandear wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like a microburst to me, but same family as windshear

I doubt there was a thunderstorm in the area in the middle of the winter

We’ve had thunderstorms in winter during snowfall Toronto.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thundersnow

But the snow rates were slow enough yesterday that I don’t think that was happening.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#523

Post by FabHK »

cjrp wrote: post #490
sitharus wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The METAR was 27028G35KT, or 28 gusting 35 from 270° magnetic However the runway landing was 33, or 330° magnetic. So this is 24-30kt crosswind component. The maximum landing crosswind on a dry runway is 32kt. The press conference reported the runway as dry, so if they’re correct then it’s within limits. At the reported -9°c if the runway has been de-iced it could be dry I guess? The surveillance potato camera makes…

The rule of thumb I was taught for crosswind component based on difference between runway heading and wind direction was 60º = 6/6 of the crosswind, 30º = 1/2, 10º = 1/6. So if they're landing on runway 23, 270/28 would amount to (roughly) 4/6 of the wind as a crosswind component, or 19kt.

90º = 6/6, 60º = 5/6, 40º = 4/6, 30º = 3/6, 10º = 1/6 strikes me as pretty accurate.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#524

Post by ominous_prime »

Scoundreller wrote: post #522
ominous_prime wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt there was a thunderstorm in the area in the middle of the winter

We’ve had thunderstorms in winter during snowfall Toronto. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thundersnow But the snow rates were slow enough yesterday that I don’t think that was happening.

yeah, "middle of winter" wasn't quite right, but the chances of a microburst during what is an otherwise already windy/gusty winter day are basically none

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#525

Post by throw0101c »

latexr wrote: post #507
throw0101c wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just for a different point of view, my wife is Type 1 Diabetic - no way she’d be leaving her medical stuff. Perhaps a fanny pack would be a better idea: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanny_pack

Yes, better use a fanny pack and have it on you at all times . Don’t even remove it and store it in your bag temporarily when on an airplane, you never know if it’ll capsize on landing and you’ll need to avoid people on the internet criticising you. It also goes without saying that you should keep in on while showering and sleeping too, you never know when your hotel could catch on fire.

> Don’t even remove it and store it in your bag temporarily when on an airplane, you never know if it’ll capsize on landing and you’ll need to avoid people on the internet criticising you.

You'll need to first avoid succumbing to smoke inhalation or flames if you don't get out in time (or cause someone else to not get out because your fumbling).

The take-offs and landings (and perhaps add approach) phases of flight constitute ~5% of flight time, but the vast majority of the fatalities:

* https://flightsafety.org/asw-article/loc-i-accidents-led-oth...

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#526

Post by sfilmeyer »

latexr wrote: post #509
aziaziazi wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know much about T1 diabet so please excuse me if I’m asking the obvious: don’t you expect to find everything necessary in an international airport like Toronto? I mean in pharmacies but also with the airport medic team? My first though in a similar crash would be to get out ASAP to avoid me or someone else roasting, although it may be so stressful that rational thinking may not be at its best.

Maybe you’ll find everything you need readily available at the airport, or maybe everyone will be busy dealing with the current situation and won’t be able to help you on time. Maybe they’ll need to send someone back for your bag and that’s going to take hours or days before they give it back to you. Maybe you having to wait makes you miss on other care. People die in hospital waiting rooms. Why risk it when you know…

> People die in hospital waiting rooms. Why risk it when you know you have everything you need right on hand?

Because people also die in incomplete airplane evacuations. In the Aeroflot Flight 1492 crash, 41 of 78 occupants died while folks were seen evacuating with their bags. Some of them would have died no matter what, but somebody slowing down an evacuation from a serious airplane crash for even just seconds to quickly grab their insulin kit out from under the seat in front of them (let alone to film for social media or whatever else) could cost someone else their life.

The situation might look "fairly under control", but the plane is upside down, leaking flammable jetfuel, and surrounded by firefighting foam that no one wants to spend more time around than they have to. Leaving behind medical supplies in a crash has a real impact on a diabetic or similar, but any slowdown to the evacuation also has a real impact on all of the other passengers.

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#527

Post by marcusverus »

Febra33 wrote: post #379
bsimpson wrote: post #269

It's wild to me that this is at the top of Hacker News, but not even on the Google News front page. I feel like major airline crashes are usually headlines.

[flagged]

What to Submit: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.

[0]https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#528

Post by rtkwe »

WalterBright wrote: post #118

I've not seen any video of the crash. Usually, when there's a crash, dash cam or other amatuer video caught it. Which leads to my repeated bafflement as to why there are no video cameras constantly pointed at flight ops at the airport. If every 7-11 can have a security cam recording hi-def 24/7, why can't a couple of these be mounted in the tower pointed at the tarmac?

It also just takes time for those videos to get uploaded and spread. We already have 2 good videos from the approach end of the runway; one released by TMZ from a CCTV camera and one from a pilot waiting for their turn to take off.

Best one so far is this one from the next in line plane that would have taken off next: https://old.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/1isabv4/another_a...

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#529

Post by rs186 »

bsimpson wrote: post #269

It's wild to me that this is at the top of Hacker News, but not even on the Google News front page. I feel like major airline crashes are usually headlines.

Likely because there was no casualty, which doesn't really make headlines.

On the other hand, the concentration of people who are interested in planes/flights are definitely higher on HN than something as generic as Google news

Re: Plane crashes, overturns during landing at Toronto airport

#530

Post by HamsterDan »

toss1 wrote: post #49
b112 wrote: post #20

Starting to wonder of subtle hacking is involved.

The "subtle" hacking is removing the regulations requiring safe maintenance and procedures, removing people responsible for maintaining and implementing the regulations, and removing the people responsible for controlling the traffic safely. In a highly complex system, all the hacking you need is to allow the ordinary chaotic systems to run more wild and stochastic errors will degrade the system with less traceabilit…

Which specific regulation that was recently removed do you think contributed to this crash?
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