If you only consume mainstream media then you may personally live in a society which lacks a counterculture. You strike up a conversation with the girl picking mushrooms in the middle of nowhere or you go to an underground death metal concert or spend a bit of time on 4chan and you'll find countercultures alive and well that you're just not part of. If you think a sense of sameness pervades the creative world then yo…
Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
521–530 of 1001 posts
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#522Earlier quoted context omitted.
The actual traits described are not a choice, but identifying as part of the LGBTQ culture absolutely is. Not everyone is comfortable advertising their sexuality to strangers.
>Not everyone is comfortable advertising their sexuality to strangers. Is that possibly because of the Traditional dominant culture?
I can name a number of people in my family who are openly gay but not politically active. If you asked them if they identified as LGBTQ+ they would probably say "sure" but they don't wave flags, have stickers, clothes, or anything else proclaiming their sexuality. They're not trying to hide it (as if that were possible, they're all married to partners of the same sex), but it isn't a fundamental part of how they interact with the world.
And I know people in my family who are quietly bisexual or gay, too. Plenty of folks would accuse them of being in the closet, as if that were bad (because they should want to advertise it, right?). It must be fear of bigotry that keeps them in the closet, right? In my experience, no, they aren't actively hiding anything, not using subterfuge to make people think they are straight, they just keep their sexuality to themselves.
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#523Earlier quoted context omitted.
What you’re observing isn’t a lack of counter-culture, it’s a lack of monolithic culture , though. In different parts of the country, or even different parts of the same city, the dominant culture is different. Living a “glorified lifestyle,” as you put it, in NY of SF? Sure, no one bats an eye. In the rural south? Different story. On the other hand — white man with “radically traditional values“, whatever that means…
I live in the rural south and went to a private Christian university. They painted the statue of the school mascot a rainbow on pride month. My biblical ethics classes taught the opposite of what the Bible teaches. The students couldn't care less about the traditional aspects of Christianity. My friends at other Christian private universities had similar experiences. You don't have to be in NY, SF, or wherever to exp…
Nothing more biblical than that, since the bible is polyvocal and therefore contains positions that are in tension and even on occasion outright opposition with one another.
> The students couldn't care less about the traditional aspects of Christianity.
Which/whose tradition?
And the youths are sometimes less invested in tradition you say?
> trendy culture
"Trendy" isn't an insight, it's a dismissal, and it's one that misses the insight that the parent tried to offer you.
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#524Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes you are right that there are a lot of catholic people, we are talking about _culture_. How many TV shows, movies, or songs have come out in the last 10 years that featured Catholics in any way or catholic imagery, or even just general traditional values? Like maybe 1? How many TV shows, movies, and songs have come out featuring gay people or gay culture? A huge number. Compare this state to the 60's when the hipp…
You do realize there’s an entire TV network based out of Birmingham Alabama for all that stuff
The last one I can think of was "Touched By an Angel" and that is over 20 years old now.
(edited to add an omitted word)
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#525Earlier quoted context omitted.
Catholic teaching is that men cannot become women and women cannot become men. Catholic teaching is that lying is sinful. Practicing the Catholic faith by saying "I'm sorry, but I can't 'use your pronouns' because that would be a lie by falsely saying you're a woman when you can't be" will get you reprimanded or fired at most any major US company.
I'm not catholic so please help me out here. If you cannot use requested pronouns, does your religion also ban you from using nicknames? Is it okay for you to be called User23? Is it okay to say someone's cat is cute even if you don't really care for cats? What do you do if your partner asks if they look good or bad in something?
These are all reasonable questions. I'll answer as best as I can, but please understand that I'm not any kind of formal authority.
> If you cannot use requested pronouns, does your religion also ban you from using nicknames? Is it okay for you to be called User23?
I don't know of any Catholic doctrine that says people can't use pseudonyms, nicknames, or even change their name altogether.
> Is it okay to say someone's cat is cute even if you don't really care for cats? What do you do if your partner asks if they look good or bad in something?
Is it a lie, which is to say a falsehood told with the intent to deceive? Then yes it's wrong. Wouldn't you want to be told the truth if you in fact looked bad? Wouldn't you want to know that when you're told that you look good that you really do?
Personally, supposing I didn't think the cat was cute, I wouldn't say I thought it was. I would most likely treat it as a good opportunity to say nothing on the subject. Some theologians put forth a doctrine of "mental reservation"[1] which somehow makes lying OK, but I have to admit I'm not capable of the necessary mental gymnastics in any but the most clear cut cases.
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#526If you only consume mainstream media then you may personally live in a society which lacks a counterculture. You strike up a conversation with the girl picking mushrooms in the middle of nowhere or you go to an underground death metal concert or spend a bit of time on 4chan and you'll find countercultures alive and well that you're just not part of. If you think a sense of sameness pervades the creative world then yo…
There is "alive and well" counterculture, but 4chan is "automatic, boring, annoying, kneejerk" counterculture. It's like a sad shell of what it was, with all the fun sucked out of it.
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#527Earlier quoted context omitted.
> vaccines are supposed to provide immunity (not "protection") This is, in fact, wrong. Vaccines can't give us immunity. "We’re Asking the Impossible of Vaccines" https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/steriliz... > Complete protection against infection has long been hailed as the holy grail of vaccination. It might simply be unachievable. > No infection means no disease, no death, and no transmission, t…
See, so I am right that this is counter culture? I said this and it triggered you to jump and respond with fact checks and whatever. https://web.archive.org/web/20060212064058/https://www.merri... Can also show you that the dominant medical narrative around vaccines was that they provide immunity (except in the case of immune compromised individuals). To this day I'm actually astonished watching the entire medical co…
I kinda agree with you except about vaccines. The seasonal flu vaccines are nowhere close to giving immunity and predates COVID-19.
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#528I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite… “Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed. No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little c…
Here's one small "trad" expression I've seen that got some people riled up in the kind of way I would expect a counterculture to: the sqlite code of ethics https://sqlite.org/codeofethics.html Long hn thread about it from some months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31886687
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#529Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There is a huge non-obvious culture of LQBTQIA Take a look at Twitter on pride month, even Raytheon changes their logo to a rainbow version. That stuff is so mainstream it hurts. It's a counterculture in Saudi Arabia where the logos don't change and they throw gay people off of buildings, but in the US/Europe it's part of the dominant culture.
> even Raytheon changes their logo to a rainbow version And you think weapon manufacturers are sincerely concerned about discrimination and human rights in general? Mainstream culture has been co-opting countercultures since decades. There are even words like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkwashing_(LGBT) and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwashing . Music genres like punk, rock, rap etc have been watered down i…
Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?
#530Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nice try, but Republicans are doing a good job of that.
I have never heard a republican say something positive about white people. Can you give me an example? For the amount of dog whistling the GOP has done over the years the complete dearth of any explicit pandering to white Americans is actually shocking and deserving of a proper explanation. Great explanation. Very proper. Much explanation. Thanks for the example /s Arguments you cant argue against are not a “dishones…