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Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

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Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#111

Post by jl6 »

pessimizer wrote: post #94
jl6 wrote: post #76

Personally I think the word “counterculture” should be retired, as we no longer live in monocultural societies. We no longer gather round any shared fireplace. For a counterculture to meaningfully exist, it has to be somehow discordant with a dominant narrative - but there is no dominant narrative any more. The west is not ruled by the left or the right or the church or the state. We are all fragmenting off into echo…

Yet I suspect you look and think like your neighbors with a 90% probability.

Are you agreeing with the bit I said about society fragmenting off into bubbles (of local similarity)?

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#112

Post by CaptainFever »

gbN025tt2Z1E2E4 wrote: post #86
jacooper wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean going from mainstream to counter culture is a bit of a downgrade isn't it?

Not really. Youth tend to gravitate toward counter-culture naturally as a form of rebellion against their parents growing up. Having kids going toward traditional values is exactly what this society needs to begin the healing process.

Genuine question from a gay person in a conservative country: What sort of healing would traditional values do? Is it the nuclear family sort of thing? I'm not familiar with those theories.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#113

Post by marssaxman »

The counterculture I was part of seems to have died, or gone mainstream, which is basically the same thing; but I don't feel any more like part of the mainstream than I ever did. Which leads me to wonder: do we live in a society at all? I see an overwhelmingly dominant economy, with a gigantic political-corporate machine operating it and setting the terms for all forms of non-local communication - but outside of all those transactions and legislations, are there still any gaps large enough to hide a society in?

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#114

Post by drewcon »

I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite…

“Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed.

No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little cultural risk in living those glorified identities.

But say you’re an 18 year old with radically traditional values…that’s counter cultural now.

Not supporting either direction. Just observing.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#115

Post by zirgs »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #87
misnome wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taping a nail to your jacket doesn’t make you Punk.

Sounds like gatekeeping to me. I know LGBT culture generally used to be edgy and underground. But widespread mainstream acceptance means that’s not really true anymore.

In other countries it's still kinda "edgy". Yeah - gay pride is allowed and my bank changed its app icon to include rainbow colours. There also are no "LGBT propaganda" laws so gay-friendly pop culture is allowed. (Like movies depicting same sex families)

But at the same time gay marriages and civil unions are both illegal. Adoption for gay couples is illegal too. Even if they are performed abroad. The state still treat gay couples as if they were roommates or something.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#117

Post by chasd00 »

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #53
stcroixx wrote: post #40

Feels that way. Inside metro areas in the US there is very little difference of opinion on most issues. It was not always this way. People seems mostly content to consume content and ‘raise awareness’ online, and repeat.

You can't have non-standard opinions anymore. All opinions are now politics. If I say I like guns people instantly categorize me as Right-Wing-Nut or Alt-Right-Nut. If you express any kind of differing opinion publicly you will be associated with everything and anything the person hates. There are differing opinions, but those need to be kept private for fear of retaliation.

This is very true. Honest opinions are expressed privately with trusted partners only. In public, only the current, local, mainstream is what you’ll hear. “If you’re going to fight a war over nothing, it’s best to join the side that’s gonna win” - Bright Eyes

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#118

Post by GalenErso »

machina_ex_deus wrote: post #85

[flagged]

> vaccines are supposed to provide immunity (not "protection")

This is, in fact, wrong. Vaccines can't give us immunity.

"We’re Asking the Impossible of Vaccines"

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/steriliz...

> Complete protection against infection has long been hailed as the holy grail of vaccination. It might simply be unachievable.

> No infection means no disease, no death, and no transmission, the absolute immunological trifecta. It’s why sterilizing immunity has often been framed as a “holy grail,”

> COVID-19 vaccines were never going to give us sterilizing immunity; it’s possible they never will. But the reason isn’t just their design, or the wily nature of the virus, or heavy and frequent exposures, though those factors all play a role. It’s that sterilizing immunity itself might be a biological myth.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#119

Post by notsound »

gbN025tt2Z1E2E4 wrote: post #52

[flagged]

I think it's inaccurate to call a group that has large political parties in essentially every democratic country "counterculture". To me that seems like calling the moderate left counterculture. Maybe neo-nazis and other radicals are, but that's because nobody likes them except for themselves.
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