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A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

theatlantic.com

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Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#521

Post by cma »

qiskit wrote: post #202
Cerium wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Years ago I learned this lesson about marriage while on a trip in South Western China. I joined a tour group to see a mountain for a few days. My party was six and the van sat eight, so the driver got another couple to join us. They were fascinating. We learned over meals together that they were an arraigned marriage. At the time I had extremely negative views around the practice, thanks to growing up in the USA wher…

> At the time I had extremely negative views around the practice, thanks to growing up in the USA where we celebrate our freedom to choose the perfect partner. For most of american history, "arranged" marriages were the norm and was based in communal, religous and practical realities. The disneyified idea of marriage is a modern PR invention primarily to get more business activity. Just like the idea of proposing wit…

> For most of american history

I see some things saying it was common among certain immigrant groups before 1900 (it doesn't say whether it was a majority):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arranged_marriage

Now that it is 2022 though we're closer to 1900 than 1900 is to the enactment of the constitution, so even then I'm not sure it would be most of american history unless maybe going colonial or pre-colonial (or are talking north+south america).

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#522

Post by DwnVoteHoneyPot »

nineplay wrote: post #460
dijonman2 wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the man is providing for the household then I’d argue that the woman should make every reasonable effort to support her husband. Everything changes all the time without exception. Getting used to change serves everyone.

She's providing for the household by taking care of everything in their lives outside of his specific business functions. He should be making every reasonable effort to support her.

> taking care of everything in their lives outside of his specific business functions.

You're just making stuff up. You don't know this is the case.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#523

Post by rout39574 »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #493
js2 wrote: post #445

A lot of folks are misinterpreting this article, or just using it as a jumping off point to get something off their chest. This article is not literally about the dirty dish. It's not even about compromise. Rather, the article is really about having healthy communication with your partner. The author's wife was trying to communicate to him: "when you do X, I feel like Y, and it hurts me." But he wasn't hearing it. No…

Thanks for writing this. I have a question for you, since my marriage ended for reasons similar to this author's. Why is the wife's desire more important than his? In other words, why must the husband live the way the wife wants and compromise is not acceptable (especially if they share cleaning responsibilities) -- compromise could look like "sometimes I do it her way, sometimes I do it my way." Why can't a partner…

Translated into a slightly different venue: if partner A's sense of order is jarred by laundry near, and not in, hamper, but partner B just doesn't care, then the steady state is A always cleaning up after B.

A's happiness depends on a certain degree of order in the shared space, and B is oblivious to that degree of order. Or more likely, it requires a conscious exercise of effort to perceive the degree of order.

If B is unwilling to make that effort, they are discovering that they care less about A's happiness than the relative effort required. Eventually, A figures out how low their value is, and takes their relationship elsewhere.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#524

Post by watwut »

Johnny555 wrote: post #470
watwut wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, moving whole family without consent of partner indeed tend to break relationships. Not being able to take major promotion do cause resentment too, but damm, if my partner moved me to region I don't want to, I would be pissed.

But still, I can't imagine not being willing to move to any first world country that my senior executive spouse got transferred to -- as a senior corporate executive they've have a ton of resources at their disposal to make the move as easy as possible. I have a good job that I like, but if my wife told me her company was moving her to Japan for a while, I'd jump at the opportunity.

> I can't imagine not being willing to move to any first world country that my senior executive spouse got transferred to -- as a senior corporate executive they've have a ton of resources at their disposal to make the move as easy as possible.

I can see it easily. After move, all your friends and all your life are far away. You have to change habits, language, adjust to different culture. You are very likely to be super lonely most of time. And you loose actual support network where you live. You can get some paid one, but that is something different. If she worked or had other ambitions (entirely possible she did not), those are likely gone after the move.

Many people like and have build their lives. And many if not most don't want to uproot and change everything.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#525

Post by ay »

captaincaveman wrote: post #506
ay wrote: post #8

It’s very simple. If something is minor for you but your partner prompts you extensively that it triggers them - change yourself. The willingness to listen and change yourself is what signals your love. Because everything else is much easier.

'Change yourself', 'just be yourself', no one can decide what the duck to do! Do you keep changing yourself to meet their every whim, maybe they should just let it go, it's just a glass?

Why would you be with a person you aren’t willing to change yourself for ?

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#527

Post by gleenn »

yojo wrote: post #502
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for writing this. I have a question for you, since my marriage ended for reasons similar to this author's. Why is the wife's desire more important than his? In other words, why must the husband live the way the wife wants and compromise is not acceptable (especially if they share cleaning responsibilities) -- compromise could look like "sometimes I do it her way, sometimes I do it my way." Why can't a partner…

If it is unimportant to you, and important to her, then splitting the difference doesn’t mean doing it your way half the time. If it instead is important to both of you, then you have a fundamental problem that you need to sit down and work through. Maybe there is a compromise that will leave both of you happy. Maybe one of you is willing to try changing. Or maybe you have an irreconcilable difference and need to spl…

He did mention that he would never care to change his behavior and had two reasons to continue doing it. I guess that doesn't mean it's the hill he would go to die on. I do struggle with the same thing, at what point is it something that's no longer a conversation, you should just change because the other person decided they cared enough about it. Having the wife end a marriage over it also seems ridiculous. If people can't come to realize they are asking for something silly but it's a big deal to them, that seems like that partner's problem. If I just sit around and say everything is "important", does that mean I get to have it my way all the time?

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#528

Post by aantix »

Those arguing for/against whether the dishes are trivial are missing the point.

You always ultimately make the choice whether these demands, whether too many or not, are worth it. You decide.

Dan Savage does a brief talk about this titled the Price of Admission. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1tCAXVsClw

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#529

Post by incomingpain »

scythe wrote: post #425
incomingpain wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear you and I'm afraid of the answer. I am extremely conflict averse. I sit at the dinner table hoping to talk every night. She's busy scrolling facebook. Yes sometimes I end up on my phone as well, but I actively make the effort to be there to talk. >you are undervaluing your partner's contributions I am a big believer in legitimate praise and even giving compliments to strangers. Though obviously stearing clear…

>I am extremely conflict averse. Is this you? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_in_adults#Anxious-p...

The 4 options would make me secure. I genuinely find other people interesting, I can pull the craziest stories out of people. People always have an interesting story, crimes are often involved lol. As for my self-esteem... my ego is probably a bit too big.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#530

Post by ay »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #25
ay wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are triggered by anything it is something you need to ask yourself why. And why you are with that person then, if they are triggering you. With some (minor) exceptions, what people are getting in their relationships is at least 50% result of their own choices, and not owning that only prolongs the effects.

I cant think of worse relationship advise than be with someone who never triggers a negative response in you.

Some people are into shibari. And some aren’t. And both are okay.

Edit-add: also, I think “being with a person who never triggers a negative response in you” is just plain impossible. On some days I trigger a negative response with myself :-)

But based on my limited experience of two 10+ years relationships, I can say life is so much easier and fun when you have less things to disagree about.

But I also acknowledge that this is how I am wired - for some, fights are stimulating. Hence my initial reply with shibari. There exist rather interesting pathways to happiness.

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